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Do you consider
yourself lucky at playing cards? Well, whether
you do or not, I know that you’ll get a kick out of
this interview I did with a gentleman named Drew.
Drew is a very experienced player of online Texas
Holdem Poker games. Texas Holdem Poker is
extremely popular all over the world and there are
many gambling web sites that host games where you
can win (or lose) real money. All you need to
play is a computer with Internet access and a valid
credit card.
Drew explains
that he now wins more than 90% of the Holdem Poker
games that he plays using a system that he has
devised. He has packaged his winning system
into an Information Product. Drew got in touch
with me because, even though Holdem Poker is
immensely popular, his Information Product is not
selling as well as he had anticipated. As
such, this interview contains valuable information
for anyone about how to better market Information
Products.
Listen as I
prompt Drew to tell me how online Holdem Poker games
work, his favorite games, how much a person can win,
and about his Information Product that contains
Drew’s secrets for winning at online Holdem Poker.
Topics that we
discuss to improve Drew’s sales include:
-
Drew is
undervaluing his product – the product’s price
should be higher. Much Higher
-
Perhaps a
money-back guarantee should be offered to
buyers.
-
Put more
content into the web site, such as good audio to
promote the product.
-
Hire a good
copywriter to create a dynamite sales letter or
have a professionally created audio infomercial.
-
Set up joint
ventures with other businesses to promote his
product.
-
Include
audio CDs as well as the book as the product.
-
…and many
more valuable tips for success
This is such a
great consultation because so many marketing options
are discussed. You won’t want to miss a minute
of it.
Michael: You have a rabid and
hungry market, a huge market.
That’s what attracted me to the
whole Black Jack thing. It’s
just a matter of I haven’t
gotten around to it and I’ve got
other priorities right now. But
the main thing I saw after
reading that letter…and I saw
this price of $14 for this
system that could make you
potentially thousands, I just
said something is wrong here;
$14. It is so cheap, it just
didn’t jive. This is a product
that if it can deliver on your
promises and really teach
someone how to make money online
playing Texas Hold’em night
after night…even if they work
at…it can make them thousands of
dollars. This should be a
product that sells for $1,000.
And I think that that is why
you’re not selling anything
because people don’t believe it.
[Music]
Michael: Hi, this is Michael
Senoff with
www.hardtofindseminars.com
. Here’s a one hour
consult with a gentleman who
ordered my audio marketing
secrets package. He called and
took advantage of his 30-minute
consult with me because he ended
up paying for the package. He
sent me his website and it’s our
discussion about his product,
which is an information product
which he had already developed
on a system on how to beat other
players on online playing Texas
Hold’em poker. If you’ve been
watching any TV in the last few
years, you’ll understand how
popular this game has become. He
called me looking for ways to
increase the value of his
product. It’s an hour-long
consult. We go over a lot of
ways to jump the value of his
product and to increase the
sales of his product. I think if
you’re considering creating or
selling or improving the sales
of your own information product,
you’re going to find this
one-hour consult very helpful.
Let’s get going.
Michael: Nice to meet you.
Thanks for getting that info
product from me. Have you gone
through most of it?
Drew: I have actually and
actually I was listening to some
of it again and it’s great
stuff. Let me thank you, as
well.
Michael: How did you end up
finding it?
Drew: I-Tunes.
Michael: That is awesome. So,
you have an iPod?
Drew: I don’t. My daughter does.
She was downloading some songs
or whatever. It automatically
does iTunes on my laptop and all
that. I was just messing around.
I don’t even know what I put in.
I think I put in sales training
or something to that affect. And
then you had an interview with
_____ I believe. So, I started
looking at your stuff. I’m like
wow this is great stuff.
Michael: Did you click to the
site from the iTunes?
Drew: I did.
Michael: That’s perfect. Just
since January, I’ve put up about
180 pod casts. I’ve got all my
recordings that are on my site
now as pod casts and iTunes,
they’re like 85% of the traffic.
So, it’s just another way to
generate traffic through audio
because my stuff is mainly
audio, even though I have
transcripts, too.
Drew: Right. Absolutely.
Michael: Now is the time…I mean
I looked at all your recordings
on your Texas Hold’em stuff. But
that’s just one way of getting
traffic. I had to think of other
ways to get traffic using audio.
With the proliferation of iTunes
and all the pod cast sites, it’s
been a wonderful way to get
traffic to my site and you’re a
perfect example.
Drew: Yes, absolutely.
Michael: How old are you?
Drew: I am 36.
Michael: You’re 36 and you’ve
got a daughter. How many kids to
you have, one?
Drew: I’ve got two. I’ve got,
believe it or not, a 15-year-old
daughter who is an adopted
stepdaughter and an 8-year-old
boy. I never grew up with
sisters or anything. If you have
any advice on a 15-year-old
girl, I’d love to hear it.
Michael: I’m a triplet actually.
I’ve got a triplet sister and
triplet brother. I’m 41. I’ve
got an older sister, two years
older, but I really don’t have
any advice. I’ve got two boys.
Drew: Very good.
Michael: I’m happy for that.
Drew: Absolutely.
Michael: I don’t mind girls, but
boys are easier.
Drew: That’s right.
Michael: So, you clicked over
and you were probably just
cruising around the site. You
probably got on my list
actually.
Drew: Yes.
Michael: And then you got an
email about how to turn a $28
information product into a
$3,900 product.
Drew: Absolutely.
Michael: Perfect. It’s great how
it works. So, my iTunes pod
casts led you to being a
customer. That’s wonderful.
Drew: Absolutely.
Michael: That’s what marketing
is all about.
Drew: That’s right.
Michael: In your case, with your
Texas Hold’em, it’s really
ironic because I almost got into
a joint venture with a guy who
had a Black Jack system. I’ve
got about an hour and a half
audio recording, which I’ve
never posted to the site. We had
agreements lined up where we
were going to partner and market
his Black Jack system. When I
saw you’re Texas Hold’em stuff,
I mean that was wonderful. The
problem was he didn’t have it
together. He just had an outline
of his book. He had proof that
he had a winning system. It was
basically counting cards. He was
a card counter. He made probably
a couple hundred thousand
dollars counting cards until he
got banned from Vegas and banned
from all the major casinos all
around the world. He had proof
of checks and everything. He’s
teaching Black Jack seminars.
There’s a lot of ideas for what
you have. The reason I really
liked is because…just like you
say a little bit on your
site…Texas Hold’em…now, I’m not
a poker player, but the
proliferation…the publicity of
poker on TV is just absolutely
amazing.
Drew: It’s insane. I mean really
to be honest with you, that’s
what got me into it a few years
ago.
Michael: Have you only been
learning and playing for a few
years?
Drew: I have, believe it or not.
But I’m the type of guy that
once I sink my teeth into
something…
Michael: You’re a maniac.
Drew: Yes, exactly. And so, now
certainly I don’t play nearly as
much as I did because I was just
like there’s got to be a way
because when I first started, of
course, like most people, I got
hooked. I got destroyed.
Michael: Were you only playing
online?
Drew: I played primarily…I mean
I would plan in neighborhood
games and stuff and stuff like
that. And I did better in those
games. My personality is I tend
to be impatient. I was just
thinking to myself, okay,
there’s got to be a way that a
person like me…I consider myself
intelligent and all that stuff
and I know how to play cards
pretty well, but there’s got to
be a way that I can make money
at this online. Really in a
nutshell, that’s what the
systems are in my book.
Michael: This system is really
about playing online, not
necessarily face-to-face. These
are online games from your
computer sitting at home making
money.
Drew: Exactly.
Michael: Give me in a nutshell
how you figured all this out.
Drew: The problem I was having
was a lot of people that I
talked to they’d get online,
they join a poker room, and then
the first thing they do is get
into 1,500 seat tournament
because this pays out $10,000.
Michael: So, there are all these
online tournaments going on?
Drew: Right. There are a ton of
them.
Michael: Do you have to pay to
be included in one?
Drew: Yes.
Michael: How much does it cost
to join one?
Drew: Anywhere from $1 to $100.
Michael: How did you overcome
the skepticism of online…like
these people can’t be honest…if
you win, how do I know they’re
going to pay off? How did you
overcome and get to the point
where you trusted that if you
really won that it wasn’t rigged
and you weren’t going to be
cheated?
Drew: Well, I did talk to a few
people. I’m probably the
minority when it comes to
that…probably over trusting.
Michael: You just had faith.
Drew: I never had a problem. But
what I did do is I started off
with not a lot of money invested
or deposited, if you will,
playing a couple different
tables and things like that. And
when I won, it’s immediate. They
immediately deposit the money.
Michael: You pay with your
credit card to be in a game?
Drew: Correct.
Michael: Are you buying chips?
Drew: Basically you’re buying
into the tournament.
Michael: You’re buying a slot
into the tournament. What do you
get? You’re dealing in chips,
right?
Drew: Right.
Michael: How many chips does
each player start with?
Drew: It ranges, but typically
like 1,500.
Michael: Fifteen hundred. So,
you’ve got them sitting in front
of you at your table?
Drew: Yes.
Michael: In the game, can you
keep buying more and more if you
lose it all?
Drew: Every tournament is
different, but when you’re
talking about more popular ones
or like on a Friday or Saturday
night, like a $40,000 guarantee
where they guarantee that they
pay out $40,000 in money.
Michael: To the winners of the
tournament?
Drew: Yes.
Michael: Is there more than one
winner in a tournament?
Drew: Yes. They’ll pay out,
depending on the number of
people, anywhere from one person
to 120.
Michael: So, on the screen you’d
have a little thing that tells
you how much money you have?
Drew: Absolutely.
Michael: So, when you win a
hand, those credits, you see
them right on your screen?
Drew: Exactly.
Michael: Let’s just fast
forward. The game is over and
you’ve won $1,000 and then you
want to go offline. How do you
take that money out of the
computer?
Drew: You just go into their
cashier section, hit withdraw.
Michael: And then they’ll credit
it to your credit card?
Drew: Yes or however you
deposited the money. They have
the online net tellers and
things like that. So, is you
used that account to deposit
money in, they’ll withdraw it
back into that account.
Michael: Or if it was like Pay
Pal, they’ll just credit it
back.
Drew: Exactly.
Michael: With Vegas, every time
you win more than a certain
amount, you’ve got to fill out
tax forms. Is it the same thing
on line or different?
Drew: That’s a great question. I
would imagine it would be on a
personal level. A lot of these
are offshore.
Michael: You’ve never seen it?
Drew: No.
Michael: They’re probably all
offshore. Does it say where they
are?
Drew: Some are Costa Rica.
Michael: It’s totally legal to
do online gaming?
Drew: I don’t know that it’s
not.
Michael: I was just curious.
Drew: Nobody has ever said
anything in publications or
anything that online gaming is
illegal.
Michael: I guess if you’re a
minor and doing it.
Drew: Without a doubt.
Michael: So, you had to figure
out a simple way to beat the
system online. What did you come
up with? What was the ultimate
revelation?
Drew: Mine was because I tend to
be an impatient player, which
could be death to a poker play,
so what I found was two
different ways. One is what’s
called a heads-up sit and go
tournament…is what they call it,
but what it is, is if you and I
were both logged in at the same
time and we chose to play in a
$10 where we invest basically
$11 because $1 goes to the
online gaming room, you and I
play heads-up against each other
and it’s winner take all.
Michael: Just two people?
Drew: Just two people.
Michael: Can three people play
heads-up?
Drew: Not in heads-up.
Michael: So, is this the game of
your choice?
Drew: This is one of two games.
Michael: So, heads-up, one on
one competition because it’s
quicker.
Drew: Exactly.
Michael: Rather than waiting for
all these players to show their
hands, it just goes by quicker
and you can get the money
quicker if you can beat the guy.
So, that increases your odds
right there. So, what happened
when you started doing that?
Drew: I experienced tremendous
success because while I knew I
had the mindset. When you get
into a big tournament, you have
to have a mindset that you could
be there for six hours. And then
if I have the mindset that I can
be here from 15 to really 30
minutes…
Michael: Per game. It’s not
going to last more than 30
minutes?
Drew: No. So, I knew at that
point I can have the mindset to
play aggressive, but also play
within myself and only playing
the best hand to where…because
typically what happened to me is
I was playing in a bigger
tournament and franking I would
be doing great at the beginning
and then I would feel myself
getting bored and start playing
hands that I never would play
and never should play. In
heads-up, I’m able to maintain
that focus.
Michael: And concentration.
Drew: And concentration. But
then on the flip side of this, a
lot of bad people play these
type of games.
Michael: Which is good for you.
Drew: Exactly.
Michael: Because they’re scared
of playing with all the big
guys.
Drew: Exactly.
Michael: So, the big guys are
going with the big games because
there maybe more money if though
it takes longer?
Drew: Right, absolutely.
Michael: They may think that
they’re better thinkers and
better players and they can out
smart everyone. The pot is
bigger in the larger games,
right?
Drew: Right, absolutely.
Michael: So, sometimes you can
get involved with a less skilled
player, your game time is
quicker, but would you say that
the pot is a lot less than the
larger games?
Drew: Absolutely.
Michael: What’s the average bet
on these heads-up games?
Drew: They range. I mean you can
play in a $5 heads-up game to
$100 and probably even more. I
typically play right now in the
$50 heads-up games. So, if you
and I are playing heads-up and I
win, then I profit $50.
Michael: Can you profit more in
a game than $50?
Drew: Only if you play the
higher games.
Michael: The amount of a game is
what you’re going to win if you
win against one person.
Drew: Right.
Michael: That’s a lot better
than 50/50 odds if you think
you’re a good player. You said
at any time there are millions
of people playing Texas Hold’em
on the Internet at any one time
at any given time.
Drew: Absolutely.
Michael: That many?
Drew: Absolutely. I can find a
game within 30 seconds.
Michael: How long would it take
you to be starting with a $50
heads-up game playing Texas
Hold’em with someone if I said
go?
Drew: Right now, being in the
middle of the afternoon, it may
take me a few minutes, maybe 10,
15, 20 minutes to find somebody
else online. But in the evening,
when everybody is home from
work, even though it’s, of
course, a global poker room, the
majority it seems like are from
the U.S.
Michael: So, it really is
global. Everyone knows what
numbers are.
Drew: Absolutely. They have
sites where they show people
from all parts of the globe that
play.
Michael: How did Texas Hold’em
originate and why is it so
popular? Is this the game we’re
seeing on TV?
Drew: That’s why it’s so
popular.
Michael: Because of the
publicity?
Drew: Because of the publicity
and it’s an easy game to learn.
Michael: It is easy.
Drew: A simple game to learn,
almost impossible to master. I
mean it takes a lot of
experience over time. If you
watch poker on TV, you see some
of the same guys up there all
the time. But a lot of those are
made for TV, as well. They’re
invited to these smaller
tournaments.
Michael: You could find a game
within minutes any time during
the day as long as you have a
credit card and a computer. With
your system and what you teach
by doing heads-up, one on one
play, literally within an hours
time, you have a chance of
making $50 for every 30 minutes
you play $100, $500.
Drew: Right. I play $50 tables
now. Before, I was playing $10
to $30 tables.
Michael: What’s the difference
in the skill of player between
$10 and $30 and $50?
Drew: There’s a jump in the
skill level from $30 to $50, but
not that much. But what I
recommend…a lot of the people
that have purchased my book…they
are more or less skilled at the
very beginner level, so they
need to ramp up. And so, the $10
to $30 level works out great for
them.
Michael: Tell me about some of
your successes and some of your
failures as you went through
this learning curve and you
started playing. How much were
you able to make? How much did
you lose? What’s the reality of
it here?
Drew: When I first started,
whether I’m fortunate or just
very lucky or whatever, I
haven’t lost any money so to
speak. I’ve lost games, of
course, but if I play for a
couple three hours a day, I
always end up making money. Now,
when it’s all said and done and
I’ve only made $20 in four
hours…that happens. Then there’s
also days when I made $800 in
just a few hours. It’s
interesting, but if you do it
consistently, over time you can
make really good money.
Michael: One thing that you
mentioned in the email is that
money is a problem for you. You
said it’s an understatement. So,
the thing is with a product like
this, people are buying it as an
investment. I’ll just tell you,
the main thing I saw after
reading the website and after
just looking…I didn’t look at
every single thing. I downloaded
the recordings. I think you’ve
got a great voice. You can
produce a great information
product. You have a rabid and
hungry market, a huge market.
That’s what attracted me to the
whole Black Jack thing. It’s
just a matter of I haven’t
gotten around to it and I’ve got
other priorities right now. But
the main thing I saw after
reading that letter…and I saw
this price of $14 for this
system that could make you
potentially thousands, I just
said something is wrong here;
$14. It is so cheap, it just
didn’t jive.
Drew: De-valued.
Michael: This is a product that
if it can deliver on your
promises and really teach
someone how to make money online
playing Texas Hold’em night
after night…even if they work
at…it can make them thousands of
dollars. This should be a
product that sells for $1,000.
And I think that that is why
you’re not selling anything
because people don’t believe it.
It’s so de-valued. So, then I
would ask you after looking it,
and you’ve got tons of value.
The work that you put into that,
outlining all of the strategies;
you wrote all that stuff
yourself, right?
Drew: Yes.
Michael: So, this is all totally
your product and everything. How
long did it take you to put
everything together?
Drew: When I was focused…I mean
if you took the actual time that
I put it together, I probably
got it together in a couple of
weeks, but those couple weeks
were stretched out to a few
months. That’s one of my biggest
challenges. I always have
continuous idea flow and it’s
almost a curse because it’s a
fair amount of breaks and I’ll
focus on something for a little
bit and then I realize I need to
get this done…
Michael: Did you type it up all
yourself?
Drew: I typed it all up.
Michael: That’s a lot of work.
You put a lot of work into it
for sure. Your hard work is
done. You’ve got a product
already to sell. How many hours
of audio is in the e-book?
Drew: About three and a half.
Michael: You’ve got three and a
half hours of content. You’ve
got all the strategies outlined.
The only thing you need is a way
to sell it in a believable way.
The best way to do that is you
really need a good copywriter to
help you put the promotion
together. You’ve got the
material for him to research.
You need a professional
copywriter who knows how to
write a good sales letter or you
need an audio infomercial,
something that I could do in
developing and creating a sales
pitch that could help you sell
it. Your market is huge. It’s
got to be believable. Before
they invest $1,000 in you,
they’ve got to know that you’ve
done this before. And then
another question is if you can
make so much money doing
this…and I’m just being the
devil’s advocate…what any
skeptical person would think.
They’re going to be saying if
you’ve done this, Drew, why the
hell are you selling a $14
e-book. And I know you list a
couple of reasons on your site,
but they’re just not believable.
Drew: To answer that question,
it’s kind of interesting
because…well, two things. First
of all, I do have a genuine joy
in educating people.
Michael: I believe you do.
Drew: The other side of it is,
like I mentioned to you earlier,
when I sink my teeth into
something, I go so gung-ho after
it and then whether I may lose
focus now and again, it’s still
one of those things where I’m
always researching and delving
into it very deeply. Now, I’m at
the point where I probably could
sit and make $500 or $600
tonight playing poker online,
however, I choose not to do
that. I love playing poker, just
not for six hour a night
anymore.
Michael: I understand. You don’t
want to do it, but you could do
it.
Drew: Absolutely. Actually my
winning percentage has gone up
dramatically.
Michael: What would you say your
winning percentage is?
Drew: It’s probably close to 90%
right now. That’s in the money,
meaning I’m making some type of
profit.
Michael: Every time you play.
It’s easy money if you’ve got
the patience and you really love
the game and you’re willing to
put in the time.
Drew: Right.
Michael: It’s like anything
else. If you really study and
learn your techniques and learn
your system, you could put in as
many hours as you’re probably
working at your regular job and
make just as much.
Drew: Right. Absolutely.
Probably more…you should make
more without a doubt.
Michael: I saw that one video
that you have. I didn’t watch
the whole thing, but what did
that video demonstrate?
Drew: It just demonstrated one
system and we don’t need to go
into the other system that I
have. The other system…instead
of playing heads-up, it’s
playing with a small sit and go
table of like five people.
Michael: What does sit and go
mean?
Drew: That means you just join
the table, you just sit down,
and then when it’s done, you go.
You don’t need to worry about
re-buying into the big
tournament or anything.
Michael: So, it’s a one game
table.
Drew: Exactly.
Michael: Anyone can join in at
any time?
Drew: If it’s a five person sit
and go table and as soon as five
people are joined, then that
game starts and once it’s done,
it’s done.
Michael: How do you like that
strategy compared to your
heads-up?
Drew: I like it equally, as
well. Those games typically take
about 45 minutes.
Michael: So, a little longer.
Drew: A litter longer, but the
payout is just a little bit, as
well.
Michael: How much more compared
to the heads-up?
Drew: If you’re playing the $30,
five-person table, I think it
pays out $75. If you play in a
$50 heads-up table, then it
doesn’t payout as much.
Michael: And only one person
wins at sit and go?
Drew: Two people win.
Michael: The two best hands?
Drew: The last two people…
Michael: The last two people
left?
Drew: Right.
Michael: So, those are the main
two systems you’re teaching.
Drew: Right.
Michael: What kind of person
would enjoy a sit and go compare
to a one on one…other than it
taking more time and other than
the payout being more to sit and
go because you have more people?
Who would you recommend play one
of each or is it just a
preference?
Drew: I think it’s just a
preference.
Michael: Do you find it more
enjoyable with more players than
the one on one or it doesn’t
matter to you?
Drew: It doesn’t matter to me.
To be honest with you, it really
depends on the kind of mood I’m
in. Every once in a while I’ll
still play in one of the big
1,200-1,500 person tournaments,
but just to make up a little
bit. But rarely do I do well
because my major is I get
impatient, get bored, and so I
need to move on type of thing.
But these two systems work
perfect for me. I know a lot of
not so good players play in
those types.
Michael: You know a beginning
player is going to do either
heads-up one on one or a sit and
go because it’s less
threatening.
Drew: Exactly.
Michael: So, you’re taking
advantage and you don’t have to
invest a lot of money. So,
you’re taking advantage of all
the new players who are coming
onboard that are learning about
Texas Hold’em from TV. And
because you’re more experienced
and you’re in the location that
these new players are playing,
you’re able to take their money
basically.
Drew: Yes to a certain degree,
absolutely.
Michael: It lets you do 24/7
from any computer in the world
as long as you have a credit
card. At the height, how much
were you playing when you were
really into it? Tell me about
the days when you were just in
love with this stuff and you
were kicking ass.
Drew: I was playing anywhere
from between four and six hours
a day, maybe even sometimes
seven or eight hours a day.
Michael: Can you think of your
biggest win in a day?
Drew: I think my biggest day was
a little over $800.
Michael: How about your biggest
loss?
Drew: My biggest loss was
probably a profit of about $20.
Michael: When you look at
whether you won or lost, you’re
looking at after that time
period of play, whether it’s 30
minutes or three or four or five
hours.
Drew: There have been times when
I’ve gone an hour and a half and
played three or four heads-up
games and lost them all. That’s
in the middle of a four-hour
stretch. So, after it’s all said
and done, I’d still come home
ahead.
Michael: So, that computer is
like a little ATM machine.
Drew: It can be, absolutely.
Michael: But instead of punching
in the numbers and after two
minutes getting your money, you
have to spend some time.
Drew: Right.
Michael: Do you have a regular
job?
Drew: I do. I’m self-employed. I
do personal accountability
training for organization.
Michael: How long have you been
doing that?
Drew: About three years. It’s
not my own product. I am a
distributor, facilitator,
trainer type guy for a guy that
developed the program. It’s
always been a dream of mine, the
entrepreneur thing I absolutely
love. It’s always been a dream
of mine to really produce my own
product…that I can call my own
or even make a few bucks versus
something everybody else did to
get rich. The other thing, too,
is my entire career…I really
developed the Texas Hold’em
thing because I had this
absolute fascination with it and
tasting that and just getting…I
don’t know if infatuation is the
right word…and just going nuts
over it and just absolutely
loving it and then that’s why I
originally developed the book
because I’m like okay I found
these systems. These do work. If
the right person can actually
apply it, it’s going to work for
them. So, I got a high off of
developing…wanting to get it out
and help people become better
poker players.
Michael: How many of these books
at $14 have you sold? How long
have you had this site up? You
told me in the last year you did
about $2,000 in sales.
Drew: It’s a little over a year.
Michael: So, in the last year
you’ve done about $2,000 sales
and what have you spent on your
keyword advertising?
Drew: Actually it’s $2,000 in
profit.
Michael: Profit, okay. So, you
netted $2,000 on it. I think you
can sell it for $1,000 or $799
or $599 and have a risk free
guarantee, kind of like what I
had because it’s worth it. I
mean if you can show a
guy…you’re giving them this
system that they can sit down
and in four or five hours can
make $800. Do you realize what
$800 can do for someone who’s
maybe working at a minimum wage
job or who loves pokers? That’s
big money for someone.
Drew: Right.
Michael: Or even $500 extra a
day or $100 extra a day. In two
hours, you can show them how to
make $100 extra dollars per
night playing online poker, as
long as they have an online
connection and a credit card,
and as long as they’re willing
to take some time and study your
system. And you’ll guarantee it.
They’ll get like $100 from
virtually three out of four
nights they play for the rest of
their life and they only pay for
the system one time. That’s got
to be worth more than $14.
Drew: I hear you. I agree. The
reason I got kind of chicken
because I initially offered as
$47. Had one or two sales…
Michael: What happened? Did they
return it or something?
Drew: No, not at all. That was
just over a few weeks.
Michael: You’re lacking the
confidence in your system and in
your program and your customer
can smell it. When they see what
you’re offering and what you’re
claiming and they see the $14
price, it’s just something isn’t
right. It’s not believable. Now,
if you’ve got a system that’s
$1,299 or $2,900, even if you
sold one in the whole year,
you’re going to come out better
than you did this last year.
Drew: Right.
Michael: Just one. And if you
upped the price, then it’s worth
your while to put a little bit
more effort into the copywriting
into the sales letter…into maybe
a series of audio recordings
that will sell people on the
system; interviews with you,
that kind of promotional stuff
that you could have all online.
How much are you spending on
your pay per click?
Drew: Right now about $150 a
month.
Michael: How much is it per
click…about…what’s the average
on Texas Hold’em?
Drew: About 15 or 16-cents.
Michael: Are there tons of other
systems out there on Texas
Hold’em?
Drew: There are…not a lot of
system that I know of.
Michael: A lot of books on how
to play?
Drew: A lot of books on how to
play and strategy type things,
but not necessarily systems.
There’s a couple.
Michael: You said you’ve read
every single book you can get
your hands on, on the game.
Drew: When that was quoted,
there were not as nearly as many
as there are now. But when I was
developing my book and my
system, yes. I mean I actually
talked to a handful of pros and,
of course, I didn’t record any
of the conversation or anything
like that where today I could
just shoot myself for that.
Michael: Did you talk to some of
the pros?
Drew: I did. Now, none of them
are the guys you’re going to see
on ENCN, but ones that do it for
a living. They do play online,
but they also go to Vegas.
Michael: Well, who did you learn
the most from? Is there any one
or two guys that really taught
you a lot?
Drew: The one guy that taught
me…not even the most. To be
honest with you, a lot of them,
the same information, but just
kind of in different ways, so a
lot of the things that I’ve
learned weren’t brain surgery.
Like some of the good
things…like Doyle Brunson, he’s
an absolute legend…on some of
the certain hands I was having
difficulty with, his book helped
me understand a little bit more
and stuff like that. But see,
they’re more the traditional
poker players. They go into
these huge tournaments…
Michael: And they’re eyeball to
eyeball.
Drew: Exactly.
Michael: So, differentiate. How
is an online game different from
a face-to-face game? You hear
poker is a liar’s poker and
there’s a lot of psychology
where these expert poker players
are looking for tells, they’re
looking for human nature, winks
of the eye, fiddling of the
fingers, to determine whether an
opponent is bluffing. How does
the online game make it an
advantage to playing online and
winning compared to that
face-to-face interaction?
Drew: You could put out a bluff
and you could have the worst
poker face ever and if you’re at
a live table, you’ll get called
on it immediately, where when
you’re online, they can’t see
that. And so, you don’t have to
have a good poker face to be
successful. And the beauty of
online is you can…since it moves
so much faster…you can get a
feel for the game pretty
quickly, as well, as far as the
way your opponents bet, how they
bet, when they fold; those type
of things. That could be a big
advantage.
Michael: So, there’s other kind
of tells online that are
different from a live game?
Drew: Right.
Michael: An expert who’s got a
high intelligence playing poker
face-to-face can come into an
online game and not do so well.
Drew: Potentially, absolutely.
Michael: So, there are two
skills. I mean the live game,
face-to-face, you’ve got to be
very good at reading human
nature, right. Isn’t that a big
part of poker?
Drew: Absolutely.
Michael: But that element is
gone when you’re online.
Drew: It really is. I mean
there’s certain things that
identify tells online, but let’s
say that it’s a lot harder to
see those.
Michael: That gives it another
advantage and more advantage to
a player to come online and win.
Drew: Absolutely.
Michael: So, you’ve outlined in
your course all the strategies
and all the systems that you’ve
used to make this a winning
venture?
Drew: Yes, I have.
Michael: Everything is covered?
Drew: Everything is covered.
There are a couple of new things
that I’ve just
developed…actually I just wrote
a new report yesterday after
getting fired up after looking
at your stuff. It’s really,
really geared towards the
beginner who has difficulty
knowing which hands to play,
starting hand. It’s based on a
point system that’s really easy
to do. It’s not the
end-all/beat-all, but certainly
if they’re having questions and
then their hand doesn’t add up
to a certain point range, then
they know that they should
probably fold it.
Michael: Give me a demographic
of who’s playing online? What
would you say…are 90% total
newbies, inexperienced, have
never really put study into the
game? How would you breakdown
the type of player that you’re
going to find online at any
given time?
Drew: That’s a great question. A
year ago I would say that’s
probably accurate. Now, I think
it’s probably the number of
newbies has diminished and it’s
probably starting to stabilize
just because of the newness has
wore off a little bit. But…I
mean the people that buy book
today are still…most of them are
newer to poker, without a doubt.
Michael: Do you have an idea of
how you’d categorize your
customer who is buying your
book? Are you able to find out
or are they just pretty much a
name…you’re not really sure?
Drew: Yes, I’m not really sure.
I have a handful that actually
I’ve helped out. We’ve had
dialog, at least via email and
those are primarily the newer
folks. I’ve had a couple that
have given me testimonials that
have been playing poker for
years that know what they’re
doing and were just kind of
looking for the “system” to
actually make money.
Michael: Well, like I say, I
think you’ve done all the hard
work. I think you’ve got a great
product. You’ve got a great
story. I think it just needs to
be sold better. I think
absolutely starting today…you
should quit giving it away at
$14. A $14 e-book isn’t worth
shit and you need to quit
calling it a book. It’s not a
book. It’s a system. It is a
virtual ATM machine. It is a
money making system. Any guy can
plug in and start making money
with an hour of play, as long as
they study your system, as long
as they have the knowledge, as
long as they learn the
techniques that took you years
to learn and put together. If
they follow your system, it’s
not 100% money in the bank, but
with some practice and effort,
they could be winning 90% of the
time just like you do.
Drew: Right.
Michael: And limit their losses,
due to this Texas Hold’em online
poker phenomenon, which you
figured out a way to capitalize
on the game without having to be
an expert in human psychology
where it levels the playing
field for a beginner, as long as
they have the skills and your
system. Do you see what I’m
saying?
Drew: Absolutely.
Michael: That is worth money.
That’s worth $1,000, $2,000,
$3,000. But your marketing has
got to be good. You’ve got to
have a very compelling sales
letter and offer and you’ve got
to have good, good audio. You
know I love audio.
Drew: Absolutely.
Michael: Good audio to promote
it. It’s an investment in it,
but I think you’ve got such a
huge marketplace. I mean there’s
literally millions of dollars
that could be made just on a
product like this because your
market is so rabid and so
passionate, which is what I
really liked about the Black
Jack. It’s got that element of
easy money and that’s a very
strong human desire, easy money.
Drew: Right.
Michael: And it is. You’ve got
an easy money system. You really
do with something that’s
extremely popular and backed up
by public opinion. I mean your
market is tremendous. I
guarantee if you search SRDS,
there are mailing lists, there
are clubs, there are potential
people you could do with joint
ventures. Once you have your
selling system in place, you
could approach another business
that is marketing to customer,
whether they sell gambling books
or how to courses on gambling or
whether it’s the lists from
casinos who request specific
classes on Texas Hold’em or
whether it’s subscribers to
special pay-per-view Texas
Hold’em…there’s lists available
of your customers. Anyone
watching poker seriously wants
to learn the game, but what they
really want is an easy way to
make money.
Drew: Now, let me ask you this
because the one thing that I
tried before…I developed the
audio and I was selling the
e-book and I tried to sell the
audio on the backend, which has
been miserable. In my
opinion…and please tell me what
you think…I think I went about
it all wrong. I should just sell
that all up on the…
Michael: The audio is added
value for your customer who buys
your book. So, instead of having
to sit down and read and focus
on it, if they have it on audio
and they can burn a CD, they can
listen to it in their car.
You’re giving them more value.
You’re making it more convenient
for your customer to listen to
your system and that’s added
value right there. So, they can
be driving to and from work and
be learning a little bit about
your system. You should give it
all away because your audio is
really just read transcripts of
your book, right?
Drew: Yes, it really is.
Michael: And that’s hard to do.
I know because even in my
course, I’m not used to reading
into the microphone. That’s
really one of the first products
I’ve ever done like this. It’s
hard reading directly into the
mike, isn’t it?
Drew: Yes.
Michael: You don’t want to come
across like you’re reading, so
you’ve really got to
concentrate. I know how hard
that is just in putting this
product together. But still, for
someone who really wants to
learn, that’s okay. They want it
spoon fed to them and having it
on audio…I mean you’ve read all
the benefits of why it’s nice to
have audio. It’s just convenient
for your customer.
I would recommend…and you can
start slow…I would at least jump
that package up to $297 or $597
with an offer like I have. Pay
nothing now. I’ll deliver
everything to you. I’ll prove it
to your first. What do you have
to loose? It’s all digital
anyway.
Drew: Right.
Michael: Generally, if you
deliver on your content, and you
deliver what it says in your
sales letter or in your audio
promotion and you deliver that,
people are happy with that as
long as you deliver. If you
deliver crap and you sell a lot
of hype and you deliver crap,
they’re going to return it.
Drew: True.
Michael: But if you deliver on
what you promise, people are
happy with that, they’ve got a
fair shake and they won’t
return.
Drew: Very good. Well, that’s
awesome stuff. Can I ask you a
little bit more about your audio
infomercial and then your
complete service and stuff?
Michael: You’ve got content
already. The product you bought
from me…it’s pretty easy to
follow. You know how you have
the five different CDs and the
five different titles, 17
Roadblocks, if you wanted to
reformat your content and use
the titles and stuff that I
suggest, it would give it more
sales ability. You’ve got all
your systems, so everything you
have in your e-books, you could
format those titles. You could
also break your audio down into
separate CDs or to separate
things like 17 roadblocks that
will keep you from winning at
Texas Hold’em, seven secrets
that’ll stop your Texas Hold’em
game stone dead, 17 fast start
secrets to get you off to a fast
start. Take that model.
Ordinarily, if I were to create
your information product, I’d be
creating it from scratch, so
really what I could offer you is
my Internet audio infomercial
where we would do…could be 45
minutes, an hour. We’ve done a
little bit of it today just in
the questions I’ve asked you.
We’d definitely do a lot better
preparation for it and I would
do an interview with you…just
like if you went on a radio
show…but it would be real in
depth and we would cover all the
objections and we would create a
sales piece, an audio
infomercial, an audio sales
piece to get that listener
interested in trying your
system. And this would be
catered for your market,
potential newbies or people who
want to learn to make money at
Texas Hold’em.
Now, I’ve got several different
ways to go on that. I’ve got
kind of like a report that
outlines all the benefits that
you can do with that. And I
don’t know if you’ve seen that.
I can email that to you and you
could review that. And then I’ve
got basically a letter that
describes more of the service
and we can talk about doing that
because you’ve already got your
product. And then once you have
your audio infomercial, I
provide the written transcripts.
Now, I work with copywriters who
work off my transcripts, so
before we create a sales letter,
we’ll have the transcripts of
this intense recording and
basically it makes your
copywriter’s job…whoever you
hire, whether you hire someone I
recommend or whether you do it
yourself…I’m going to pull out
all of the hot benefits of why
someone should use your system.
And we’ll have all those
transcripts and those
transcripts go a long way in
creating the body and most of
your letter. When you create a
sales letter, it’s really just
assembling different ideas, but
all the ideas I’m going to
capture on the audio and we’re
going to transcribe them. So,
for instance, let’s say we have
that audio. That can act as your
sales letter, as well. In the
report…I’m not going to go into
it now…but in the report, you’ll
see ten different ways you can
use that audio to sell your
system. And if you bump your
system up to a price that’s
equal to what you’re claiming,
$999 or $599, whatever you’re
comfortable with…it could be
$1,399, $1,499…and then once you
sell one and make some profit,
it’s worth it. If you add up all
the time that you’ve invested in
putting this together…the weeks
of writing and the research that
you’ve done and testing out the
system and taking the chances on
losing money…I mean that’s real
value.
Drew: Right.
Michael: And if you remove the
risk 100% from the prospect,
they’ve got nothing to lose.
They can try your system out for
free without risk. And like I
said, even if 50% of them
return, you’re still going to
come out way ahead than giving
this thing away at $14. That’s
your problem right there.
Creating the audio infomercial
could be anywhere from $800 to
$1,500…maybe a little more or a
little less. I’m not exactly
sure, but I can give you a quote
on it. I’ll email you a link to
the report, just to get a little
more educated on what you can do
with the audio once we have it
nailed down. And I know you said
money was tight, but you can
think about whether that would
be a good investment.
Drew: Sure, absolutely. One last
quick question, I just want to
take a side step of the Texas
Hold’em talk. Everything you’ve
given me is very good stuff,
it’s very powerful, and I am
going to take your advice on a
few things here for sure.
Michael: No problem.
Drew: The other thing that I
have a very, very strong passion
for is sales. I’ve been in sales
and sales management for years
and years and years and I’ve had
all the high tech training and
all this stuff and I just feel
that people have over
complicated the selling
industry. I’m not talking online
selling…cold calling and all
that stuff. I’ve outlined a lot
of stuff, just never taken it to
that next level to where…this TV
thing that you outlined here…I
purchased earlier…makes sense.
Now, how much would that entire
package…what type of investment
would I be looking at for that?
Michael: I would develop the
five CDs…kind of like what you
see on my product right there.
Drew: Right.
Michael: So, it would be five
separate audio recordings…just
like what you’re learning in the
product you got from me.
Drew: That’s awesome because
that’s exactly how your product
is laid out.
Michael: You just do what I do.
Drew: This is very cool.
Michael: I want to bring up a
difference. The difference in
what we’re going to do and what
you’re seeing on my website is
that I wrote all mine out first,
which took many, many hours. And
to be able to write that all
out, that’s what most people
aren’t going to be able to do.
Those words are what are really
important. Now, I just read mine
into a recorder as you listen to
the recordings, just like you
read your Texas Hold’em book
into the audio. But what we’re
going to do is we’re not going
to read it, we’re not writing it
out. We’re going to use a much
more powerful interview process
to do this…between you and
I…that natural interaction. And
there’s a big difference
compared to the bonus interviews
you heard and compared to me
reading.
Drew: I agree.
Michael: It’s much more free
flowing, powerful, and with the
editing, it becomes much more
effective. What I did was ten
times more time consuming and
harder and more expensive by
writing out a script. The script
is everything. It’s like writing
a book. It took forever to do.
When we do it, we’re going to do
interview style.
Drew: Very cool.
Michael: But we’ll prepare well
for it. Using the brain mapping
technique is one way or if you
don’t want to do that, you can
just use your simple list,
outline. You know out to make an
outline…like you did in your
book of all the ideas, and I
have that and we follow it. We
go back and forth and I pull it
all out of you.
Drew: You mentioned on…it’s a
product that I just
purchased…about the advantages
of hard products like CDs and
stuff like that. Do you still do
that or…
Michael: I mix it up. I’ve got
several different products. I’ve
got a couple of products that
are 100% digital and in my other
products I’ve got hardcopy
products. Now, my high end
product…if you’re doing…and
that’s a good question…let’s say
you do you do your Texas Hold’em
product and we’re up to $599,
$699, $1,000, $2,900 or whatever
you want, you’ve got to go with
a hard product because you’ve
got to deliver something
physical. When people are paying
that price, they want something
that they can hold. You don’t
have to, but you’re going to
have a better chance selling it
when they’re getting something
when they spend that kind of
money. The digital products, for
a $14 book, fine. It can be
digital. For a $99 product, it
can be digital. I’ve got a joint
venture product, which has been
100% digital. It’s my joint
venture product, which I am
going into hard products. So,
I’m going to make the CD-ROMs
and silkscreen them and then
I’ll put the course into a
three-ring binder. You just need
a good local printer who can do
all this stuff. It’s a pain in
the ass setting it all up, but
once it’s set, then it’s just a
matter of when someone orders,
you have it all in a box…you can
outsource this all to a
fulfillment company as you get
more and more sales. But it will
cut down on your refunds because
as you start to get up into the
higher dollars amounts, your
refunds will be higher if it’s
not a physical product. My
Art Hamel product is a physical
product that we ship in a
three-ring binder, transcripts,
three volumes of CDs. Like I
said, it’s a pain getting the
CDs made, but once it’s done…you
can do it…once it’s done, you
have your masters and when you
need to get more, you call your
printer and you say I need 20
more sets, put them in
three-ring binders, put the
covers in, you go pick them up.
When you get an order you order
your boxes from a supplier like eLine, the next day your boxes
are there, get a packing gun,
get a UPS account…no big deal.
So, yes, for your product, I
would go physical. So, what can
you do you offer some real
physical value? Well, you have
the book. Your audio is you just
reading the book, correct?
Drew: Right.
Michael: So, you have a bunch of
audio CDs. I mean you could
break those down into the titles
I’m talking about…why I wrote
this book…introduction…the rules
of Texas Hold’em, poker hand…the
rules of Texas Hold’em, how to
play…the strategy, eight
strategies, seven strategies,
six…you could break that up in
an eight CD set or a ten CD set,
in a nice white binder with a
nice cover; ten different CDs.
And you have the headlines. You
can use the headline ideas in
the course that I gave you. Then
you have your book, which you
can put in a three-ring binder.
You can add other added value
stuff like what we talked about.
You could probably nail down a
couple of interview. I can do an
interview with an expert for
you. That’s part of the package.
We could work it out. Even
though most of your product is
created, I could line up an
interview for you for your
product and do a real intensive
interview selling Texas Hold’em,
selling people on the game and
the fun of it. We could add that
bonus interview with world
champion player, whoever, and
they get the audio CD as a bonus
and then they get the written
transcript as a special report
with one of the best Texas
Hold’em players in Texas.
Just like this audio recording
we’re doing. We’ve been going
for about an hour. So, I’m going
to get this recording transcribe
and then I’m going to have 60
pages of transcripts. And guess
where it’s going to go? It’s
going to be added value to the
system you just bought. And the
more I talk, the more I make
because the more value I add,
the higher the price is going to
go. And then maybe as I get
case studies and more
recordings…see, doing the
recordings is the easiest way to
add value and you can do it
yourself.
You can find five regional
winners at Texas Hold’em from
all different walks of life. You
can interview a housewife who
plays on her down time. You can
interview an 18-year-old kid.
You can interview an 80-year-old
guy. You can find Texas Hold’em
players from all different walk
of life that fit different
demographic markets. Do you see?
So, in your sales letter, not
only are you going to get this,
you’re going to get in the
trenches secrets from a
housewife who plays two hours a
night, from an 18-year-old
kid…you see different stories of
different people. So, those
different demographics will
appeal to different demographics
seeing your offer when you mail
it or when you offer it or when
you do a joint venture. That’s
not hard to do, to do some
interviews and get them
transcribed. Maybe if it’s a
$1,000 package, they’ll get
another set of six special bonus
audio interviews with real
players. And that was in that
one report on really how to beef
up the value of your product by
doing these interviews. And you
maybe able to do a better
interview that me because you
understand the game. That’s if
you’re interviewing experts. If
we’re selling a package that’s
going to teach a newbie player
how to win at the game, since
I’m new and I’m talking to
someone who is new, I could do
that interview.
Drew: Right.
Michael: I don’t have to know
everything. I know what to sell.
I want to sell the ease of it.
You’re a mother of three. When
the kids go to bed, you go
online at night. You make $100.
Or you worked all day at your
factory job and you made $80. Do
you see? That’s the selling
part. I mean the bottom line is
we’re selling a shortcut to
money and you’ve got to appeal
to your prospects. That’s what
you’ve got to resell over and
over again. This is a shortcut
to more money. Yes, it takes a
little more work, but it’s
easier than the work you’re
doing now.
Drew: Right.
Michael: It’s safe and it’s
legal and you’ll give them the
shortcut. Now, yes, you’re going
to have to study. Most people
that get this course, three out
of four won’t do shit with it
because they don’t believe in
themselves, because they don’t
believe they can do it. But if
you’re the one out of three that
believes in yourself and you
take my system…see, I know it
can be done because you’ve done
it and you’re just selling them
on it to give it a try without
any risk. And 50% of those
people are going to end up
paying and that when that
customer pays, it’s transferred
to your confidence…the
confidence in your words, in
your sales letter. The way you
have it right now, it’s not
telegraphed. That confidence
does not come out, especially
when they see the price.
Drew: Right.
Michael: It just doesn’t match.
They don’t believe you. That’s
why you’re not selling.
Drew: Right. It makes sense. No
doubt about it.
Michael: I would leverage off of
all this hard work. You’ve got a
fantastic market. You really do.
What a huge, hungry, rabid,
caveman, emotional sale you’ve
got. Easy money. There’s a great
appeal to what you have. One of
the best…one of the best that
I’ve seen and I think you should
stick with it and just develop
it.
Drew: Very good. I will. The
first thing I’m going to do is
I’m going to up the price.
Michael: Up the price, for sure.
Can you change the offer to a
pay nothing now, 30-days…do it
like I have. Just follow the
system. You can use the order
form that I use where they pay
nothing. It would help to have a
secure order, but if someone is
really rabid, I give other
options to pay. They can copy
and paste or they can email
their credit card information.
If they really want it, they’ll
get the information to you. Look
at my order form, how I have it
and I have secure pages and it’s
a real secure order form, which
helps. It cuts down on the
people who are fearful. But if
you don’t want to do that now,
you don’t have to, but make it a
30-day risk free offer. Bump it
up. If you want to take it in
baby steps since the only thing
you’re going to do is change the
price, bump it up to $97 or bump
it up to $197. Do it at $297. Do
it at $297 and do a risk free
offer and see what happens over
the next month. And be thinking
of some of the ideas. I’ll email
you the stuff on the Internet
audio infomercial and if you get
some money and you want to
invest in it, I’ll be glad to do
it with you.
Drew: It’s great stuff Michael.
I’m a believer in what you do,
so I appreciate it.
Michael: It works. And then I
will get you this recording.
I’ll get it up online later
today or by Monday.
Drew: Okay, awesome. That’ll be
fantastic.
Michael: All right.
Drew: Have a great weekend.
Michael: Take it easy. Bye. |
