This is Terry Telford reporting from Michael Senoff’s Consulting Secrets and HardtoFindSeminars.com where I’ll be bringing you exclusive audio interviews with the hottest, most sought after business secrets that can make your business explode.

Terry: A copywriter extraordinaire, Dan is currently so busy that he’s not even accepting new clients. So, you can appreciate the time that is Dan is taking with us to describe his business and exactly how he works, and pass on a lot of information as far as being a copywriter and what you can do to actually go ahead and write your own copy, the formula he uses, the secrets he’s got.

Let’s just dive right in. I’d like to just say thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us, Dan.

Dan: Glad to be here, Terry. Thank you again.

Terry: Dan, I’ve got really a bunch of question for you, but before we kind of dig-in let’s talk about you first. How did you get started and how did the early days go?

Dan; Terry, I moved from Hong Kong to North America years ago with no money, no connections and not a word of the English language on my lips. As you can tell from my thick accent, English is not my first language. I had to learn it from scratch.

I started my first business when I was 16 years old with my friends mowing lawns for people in my neighborhood, and the business went down in six months for lack of customers, and on and off I would start a business and it would fail very quickly. I was in the vending machine business. I was in multi-level marketing. I was in the retail business. In fact, I was importing toys from Asia, and at one point because I lost so much money in my business ventures, I had to borrow money from my friends and family just to survive. That was pretty bad. I even went out there and got a job, and I was making minimum wage just stocking cans on a shelf in a supermarket because I had no degree or formal education, that’s the only job I could get at that time.

Now at that time, just like most people I was reading all those self-help books. I was listening to the tapes, going to the seminars. I was a junky. I had a desire to succeed. I set goals. I think positively, affirm to myself daily, “I’m rich. I’m wealthy.” All that stuff, and guess what Terry? I was still friggin broke.

Now, by the way, forgive me for being very blunt during this interview. I don’t mean to hurt anybody’s feelings, but I probably will because when it comes to business and marketing advice, I don’t pull any punches. I mean I don’t take any prisoners. I don’t sugarcoat stuff. I tell it like it is. That’s exactly why I’m not everybody’s cup of tea. My clients either love me or hate me because sometimes I’m just too tough on my clients. Sometimes they come up to me and ask me, “Dan, what do you think of this idea?” And, if I don’t like it and I think it’s not going to work I just tell them point blank, “It’s not going to work.” And, a lot of them don’t like to hear that especially when they’re paying me a lot of money. They put up with me because I make them money. I mean, why else would a person pay a marketing guy a lot of money to yell at them and slap them around. The reason is I make them a lot of dough.

I was starting all these businesses and these ventures were going out of business faster than I could start them. So, it was really bad. Then, one day it just dawned on me and I asked myself this question, “Why some business are more successful than others?” Why some people just seem to have the Midas touch? I mean I looked at myself. I said, “Well, I’m not stupid. I work hard.” I had the desire to succeed. What was I doing wrong? What’s the problem? What’s the key? What’s missing? I kept asking myself, and boom! I got it. I finally got it! The ultimate secret to business success and here’s the secret. I have never seen a company in trouble from having too much revenue. Just like a person – you can never have too much money. You can never have too much revenue in a business.

Now, the next question, Terry, you want to ask me is, “Well, Dan, then how do you generate revenue?” By creating and keeping a customer. Well, how do you create and keep a customer? Through effective marketing. No marketing, no customers. No customers, no sales. No sales, no business. Period, end of story. It’s that simple. Show me a profitable company and I’ll show you good marketing company.

So, I discovered that that’s the ultimate secret to business success, and that’s the key. That’s the missing link. Then, I determined to get good at this marketing stuff. So, I read John Cables, and Claude Hopkins – all the marketing classics, and starting my little one man advertising agency, and I started running ads for entrepreneurs. Now, at that time, because I was just starting out Terry, I didn’t have any degree or diploma in marketing. At the time, I didn’t have any credibility. Nobody trusted me.

Terry: How long ago was this?

Dan: That was about six years ago, so 1998. That’s what happened. So, what I did is very simple. I made them an offer they could no refuse. I simply said to them, “Mr. or Mrs. Prospect, I realize that you might not believe in my marketing ability, and I can appreciate that. Why don’t we do it this way? Let me run ads for you or a direct mail piece. If they don’t make you money, don’t pay me a dime, only pay me if they work for you. How does this sound to you?” Guess what they said? “Sure, when can we start?”

So, under that kind of pressure, I had to figure out a way to create the most type of advertising possible. Why? Because if my stuff doesn’t work, I don’t eat. I can’t mess around with series. I don’t have that kind of luxury. I wish I had. The stuff I create, they have to make money, and preferably make money very quickly, and to this date, I have sold for 20 million dollars worth of products and services in over 39 different industries, and know I’m teaching others how to market their products and services.

So, that’s basically my story and that’s how I got started in business. Let me tell you a story, okay?

Terry: Yes.

Dan: Now one time I was on the phone with a client and he owns a couple of restaurants in Canada, and his business was in trouble, big trouble. I can not reveal his name here. We were chatting and I was asking him some questions and stuff. So, we were on the phone for at least I think three hours, and at the end of the consultation, I gave him some ideas on how to develop brand, how to really promote his business, how to create some excitement in his restaurants, how to create a Unique Selling Proposition – all that stuff. So, he wrote down a bunch of notes and ideas. Anyway, I didn’t hear form him for two or three months – no fax, no phone call, nothing, absolutely nothing. One day he called me out of the blue. I picked up the phone and all I heard was, “Dan, thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!” And, I said, “What happened? What is it?” I said, “Oh, Dan, I did exactly what you said, and I quickly turned my business around and now my sales is up 30 percent. Thanks for your advice” and he just kept saying, “Thank you, thank you, thank you.” And, I said, “Send me a check.” That’s just stuck in my mind. So, I think, “Hm, that’s interesting.” He quickly turns his business around. I said, “That’s a good turn.” That’s why I call my methodology “Quick Turn Marketing.” So, that’s how the idea was born.

But, Terry, frankly, there’s nothing new under the sun of marketing. I don’t claim to invent all these marketing strategies or ideas. In fact, I’ll be the first one to tell you, I never have any original ideas and probably never will. Here’s the first lesson for our listeners and it’s an important one. When you go to the bank, Terry, and deposit some money, would the teller say to you, “I’m sorry, Terry, we can’t allow you to deposit the check because this is not your original idea.”? You didn’t bang your head against the wall to come up with this idea. The bank don’t give a damn! They don’t care if you spent ten years coming up with the idea or they don’t care if you spent a day. Money is just money. Then, why did we invent the wheel? Why not take the road of less resistance? Forget about being original. Forget about being creative. Creativity sucks. Just take the money and go home.

Terry: That is a really, really big statement coming from somebody who is a very professional marketer.

Dan: I am not an innovator. I’m a synthesizer. I had to take the best marketing techniques that I have used and test in the battle, in the trenches – simplify them. We find them again and again and teach it in such a way that is easy to understand and most importantly, easy to apply. I want people to be able to learn my stuff today, and then they can apply tomorrow when they open a door and just make some quick cash. That’s my whole intention. That’s what Quick Turn Marketing is about also for using the maximum results with the least amount of effort and the least amount of time.

Terry: Well, then Quick Turn Marketing is something that I can go to your website and say, “Hey, I like this sales letter that he’s written. I’m just going to copy that and change a few words, and I can use it.”

Dan: You can copy the idea. There’s a huge difference between stealing and copying and modeling. I would say if you could look any sales letter that is proven, you can take – you don’t want to just steal the words and phrases. That’s illegal. That’s copyright protected material, but you can never copyright an idea.

Okay, let me give you an example. Let’s say there’s a proven headline. There’s an ad written by John Cable. It’s called, “Do You Make These Mistakes in English?” It’s an ad for I believe a home study course. It’s been running for 30 years. I believe it’s still running right now. Now, if you just take it “Do You Make These Mistakes in English?” And, use that as your ad, that’s legal. But, what if you change it to, “Do You Make These Mistakes in Internet Marketing?” “Do You Make These Mistakes in Copywriting?” “Do You Make These Mistakes in Your Consulting Business?” Do you see what I mean?

Terry: So, you still have the same meaning, but you’ve just changed some of the words so you can use it for your own business.

Dan: Exactly. Why reinvent the wheel? Just take what works and run with it.

Terry: Now, how would you go about finding something that you would be pretty sure is something that works?

Dan: First of all, what you want to do is you want to fill up what I call a swipe file, your own swipe file. You should see my swipe file. I have thousands and thousands and thousands of sales letters.

Terry: Now, how did you pick those ones over all the sales letters? How do you choose?

Dan: Good question. First of all, what you want to do is you want to buy stuff from mail, buy stuff from Nightengale Conant. You want to get on all the marketers’ mailing lists. I’m on their mailing list. I’m on their best customer list because I buy everybody’s stuff, and how do you know it’s a winner? Very simple. If they keep mailing to you the same piece more than three or four or five times, you know it’s a winner. Why? Because if it doesn’t make money, they won’t keep mailing it. Even magazine ads, if you see the same ads running first issue, second issue, for years, you know it’s a winner, otherwise they’d pull it because it costs too much.

So, build up your swipe file, get on the mailing lists, buy some stuff from everybody. When you open your mailbox, people call it junk mail. I call it the gold mine.

Terry: That’s your research.

Dan: That’s my research. I get 10 or 20 marketing pieces a day, junk mail.

Terry: So, you’ve got a library in your mailbox everyday.

Dan: It’s huge, lots of stuff.

Terry: So, you’ve done a lot of research then as far as not only just in direct mail and that type of thing, but in a lot of different industries.

Dan: Exactly.

Terry: What do you see then would be one of the common or some of the common marketing mistakes and advertising mistakes that consistently are coming into your mailbox?

Dan: I can do a three day boot camp on this subject because there are so many mistakes. Let me give you maybe four or five big ones. Mistake number one – this is not so much a marketing mistake. It’s more like a business mistake, but it’s a deadly one, and that is most entrepreneurs don’t have an exit strategy. They got into the business without knowing how they’re going to get out. They got into the business for the wrong reasons in the first place.

Let me give you an example – maybe they just lost their jobs or their boss just fired them and they’ve been working for the company for the last ten years and they think they know as much about the business than the business at the company, or maybe their parents passed away and they kind of just take over the family business, or they couldn’t find a job like me, and they have to start their own businesses. So, they got into the business without knowing what business is all about. Unless you are planning until the day you drop dead, you must have an exit strategy. You must know why you got into this business in the first place. I’m talking about what is the purpose to start the business in the first place. You want to get out of your business, and how do you want your business to serve you. Most people I talk to, I ask them, “Why did you start your own business?” And, they’ll say stuff like, “Well to make some money, to be my own boss.” That’s just not good enough. You’ve got to be more specific.

Terry: So, what would be a better answer if you were to ask somebody?

Dan: I would ask them, “When you start your business what are you going to do? Are you going to sell the business for a huge lump sum and retire? Are you going to keep the business and continue to work hands-on and make a huge income? Or maybe are you going to keep the business and cash out your time maybe delegating the day to day and making a huge passive income? Or maybe are you going to franchise your business and just collect franchise fees like McDonald’s, Burger King, and Subway that kind of stuff? Or maybe just bigger goals? You’re going to take your company public, who knows?” But, you’ve got to know all these things.

Terry: You need to have kind of a long term goal even when you’re starting your business and setting it up.

Dan: Where you’re going to get out, how you’re going to get out. Let me give you some examples in my own business activity, so I’ll make it quick. Let’s say my own consulting information marketing company, Quick Time Marketing. I sell books and tapes, educational materials, consult with people, write copy for my clients, that kind of stuff.

Now, the purpose of that business is just to generate a huge income, period. I’m not going to sell the business. It’s a cash cow for me basically, and I love what I do. The information marketing is one of the best businesses on the planet – low cost, high margin, easy to sell, easy to manage, very good business.

Now, besides Quick Turn Marketing, I also have equity in five other privately held companies. I serve on the Board of Directors for most of these companies as a marketing advisor. One of these companies, our whole goal is to sell it some corporation. That’s it. We don’t want to keep it. Now, so, what we want to do is we want to package the business in such a way that is attractive to big corporation so they’ll acquire the company. Make sense?

Terry: So, you’re going to run the business towards the goal that you’re going to sell it. So, that’s going to affect your day to day procedures on what you’re doing in the business.

Dan: Exactly. We just want to sell the damn thing. So, that way sales is more important than profit because you want its sales figures to be very impressive if you’re going to sell the company. Big companies think after the buy your business, they can do a better job than you do managing the business. They think they can increase the profits. They always think that you’re stupid. Think whatever you want, just give me the money.

Terry: So, we want to do everything we can to drum up the sales.

Dan: That’s the focus to bump up the sales now. I’m also a major shareholder of another company that invests in the US tax liens and tax fees and tax certificates that kind of stuff, real estate stuff. I’m not particularly passionate about this, but that’s okay because I’m not running this. Another guy is running this, my business partners are running them. That’s where I park my money. It gives me a nice return on my investment, 15-17 percent a year. It’s better than putting it in the bank. A different business, a different objective. A different objective requires different strategies and different approach.

So, the bottom line is you can not get what you want if you don’t know what you want, and just owning a business for the sake of owning one is just dumb. I apologize if that hurts someone’s feelings, but that’s just the reality. That’s mistake number one.

Terry: Can you just tell me what your exit strategy is then for the other business? It’s not a business that you’re going to sell. You parked your money there. What would the exit strategy for that one?

Dan: I treat it like a bank. This is where I park my money. I’m not going to sell it. My partner is running it. I just park my money there and get a nice return.

Terry: Okay, so there’s no exit strategy on that one.

Dan: It’s just a company that I invest in, but I have a very clear objective of what I want to do with that company, and that’s the difference. So, that’s mistake number one. Do you want to go on to mistake number two?

Terry: That would be great.

Dan: They focus on the wrong thing, and here’s what I mean. Most entrepreneurs don’t understand the importance of marketing. I don’t care what business you’re in, most businesses operate like a three-legged stool. You need all three legs, otherwise the stool falls down. The three legs in a business is, number one the product and services – what you sell. Number two is your operation – how do you manager your business. Number three how do you market your products and services?

You can have the very best products and services in the world. You can run the best office in the world, but unless you let people know what you do, unless you market your business, you’re not going to have a successful business. That’s a huge, huge misconception among business owners. If you build it, they will come. If you will build a better mousetrap, the world will beat a path to your door.

Nowadays you don’t need a better mousetrap. What you need is a better way to drive people to your mousetrap. I’m amazed at how some entrepreneurs delegate their marketing. I mean, that’s what brings in the money. How could you delegate marketing to marketing directors just amazed me? The marketing is your business. Like I said, no marketing, no sales, no business. So, you really should spend the majority of your time promoting your business, marketing your products and services, just focus your time on marketing because revenue will take care of a lot of problems. That’s mistake number two.

Mistake number three is to image advertising instead of direct response advertising.

Terry: And, what’s the difference? Can you clarify that?

Dan: Sure, some sales rep just shows up at your door, and he is selling advertising space in the newspaper or radio or trade magazine, whatever. He’s telling you, Terry, you’ve got to run this ad this way and make it look real nice and pretty and really professional. Now, not only that, Terry, you’ve got to run this ad 15-20 times to create the top of mind awareness. If you only run it a couple of times, it doesn’t work. You’ve got to run it 10-20 times.

Terry: That’s normal advertising.

Dan: Yes, that’s normal advertising because most business owners are not tracking it. They just tell you you’ve got to keep running it again, and again, and again. You can not multiply zero. If you’re not getting response today, you are going to continue not getting response, period. Unless you do or you learn what I call direct response marketing, or direct response advertising. Unless your McDonalds or Coca-Cola who has a few million bucks in their advertising budget to do all the image advertising stuff.

You have to do direct response in advertising. That means every dollar you spend has to be measurable and accountable. Imagine you have to write a check to the media rep on Monday. The ad has to appear in the publication on Wednesday so that revenue that is generated on Wednesday gets deposited into the bank by Friday so that the damn check you wrote on Monday clears. That’s the way you need to look at advertising. Every dollar you spend is measurable and accountable. If you spend ten bucks, how much did you get back in dollars?

I love this, “I get my name out there.” You can’t eat image. Image doesn’t pay bills. You need cash. So, you must know the return on your investment. Marketing is all math. It’s not about creativity. It’s all math. That’s all it is. You spend a buck, you make two bucks back – five bucks, ten bucks, twenty bucks. If an ad works, you keep running. If it doesn’t work, then you tweak it and try to change it and try to improve it. That’s all it is. So, that’s mistake number three.

Mistake number four – they market the same way that everyone else markets in the industry. Yellow page is the worse, Terry. You open the yellow pages and let’s say you’re looking for a printing company, and you open the section, all the ads basically look the same. They offer the same bullshit. I mean, “We care about you.” “We’ve been in business since 1998.” “Professional services.” “Quality printing” I mean, it’s pathetic. It’s horrible. Let me ask you – let’s say you own a printing company. Instead of running an ad saying, “I’m the best. I’m the greatest and blah, blah, blah” Who cares? Right? You run and ad and say something like this, “Warning do not hire a printing company until you read this. It’s very important we give you the seven biggest mistakes business makes with their printing and how you can avoid them.” Now, if you’re the consumer and you’re looking for a printing company, who are you going to call?

One time when I was speaking for a group – sometimes I speak for associations and stuff – a lady asked me, “Dan if you can only give us one single piece of marketing advice, what would that be?” Smart lady, good question, I said, “Find out exactly what your competitors are doing. Find out how they’re marketing their business, and just do the exact opposite of what they’re doing. You’ll do well.” That’s how I answered the question. Would this 100 percent of the time? Of course not, but it will probably work a hell of a lot better that you just follow what the competitors are doing. That’s the thing, if you do what everybody else does, you get what everybody else does. If nobody in your industry uses direct mail, try direct mail. If nobody uses free report as a lead generation tool, try it because nobody does it. It will probably work.

Terry: So, you’ll be able to keep yourself separated from the competition simply because you’re doing something different.

Dan: You’re doing something different, and it doesn’t cost much to be different. You just have to think differently. I always tell people, “Think outside of the box. Be a little crazy, be a little outrageous.” Because we’re getting bombarded with advertisements, ads, and marketing messages everyday. You have to do something that is so unique and special to catch people’s attention, but you have to be a little different. Look at it this way, if you think outside of the box, you do something new, you do something crazy, you do something that’s different from the competitors and let’s say it doesn’t work, what do you have to lose? You can always go back. I’ll tell you what, if they’re lucky it will work. That’s mistake number four.

Mistake number five – they try to market to everybody. I always tell my clients, no one is the customer. Targeting a niche market is probably the smartest way to market. Mass marketing costs us too much. It’s much better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond.

Let me give you another example, let’s say you are selling a time management system – six audio tape home study course. How much can you sell it for? Maybe 60 bucks?

Terry: Up to about $200.

Dan: Okay, $100, okay, what if you are selling time management systems for realtors, how much can you sell it for? Maybe $200.

Terry: Yeah, if you’re more specific.

Dan: Okay, what if you’re selling time management system for ReMax realtors? You can sell it for maybe $400. Now, the content is basically the same. I mean time management is time management. It’s pretty much the same. It’s just through the audio you mention something like ReMax realtors, that kind of stuff. That’s it. But, because you can charge more in a niche market and it doesn’t cost you as much to reach and communicate with the marketplace. Not everyone is a customer. If you think everyone is your customer, you’re living in a dream world. That’s not how it works. Find a niche, dominate a niche. That’s the way to go.

Terry: Then by doing that, then you’re actually going to lower you promotional marketing costs while you’re increasing your profits.

Dan: You can reach the market much, much faster. If they ask you, “How tough is it to find people who are interested in time management, generally?” It’s tough to find who is interested in this kind of stuff.

Terry: Exactly.

Dan: Terry, can you find a list of 5,000 ReMax realtors? Can you do that? In a heartbeat.

Terry: Exactly.

Dan: That’s the difference. I can go on and on, but those are some of the biggest mistakes.

Terry: That’s very helpful actually. The next thing that just kind of popped into my mind. You are probably exactly opposite to most of the – I don’t really like the word – but, the gurus are the very professional people online. You don’t kind of fall into the mainstream I would have to say. Now, mostly gurus out there are saying, “If you want to become successful, you find a need and you fill it.” What’s your opinion on that?

Dan: I think that’s nonsense, and here’s why. If you want to go broke, find a need and fill it. If you want to get rich, find a want and fill it. Now, people don’t buy what they need. They buy what they want. We only need a few things in life to survive. We need food. We need water. We need some shelter. That’s it. Now, we don’t need a Mercedes. We don’t need a big house. We don’t need a Rolex. Now, we certainly don’t need Starbucks coffee, do we? And, we don’t need 30 pairs of shoes, but guess what? We want them. We want the nicer things in life. So, people buy what they want not what they need. So, don’t find a need and fill it. Find a want, and fill it. Position your products and services as the ultimate solution to your prospects’ problems. Fulfill their dreams. Fulfill their desires, and you’ll do well.

Terry: That’s a good point. If I’m just going or someone’s going to start a business right now – they’re starting from scratch, what kind of advice would you give them then? You don’t want to go and find a need. You want to go find a want, and fill that want. Now, how would you go about setting up the business?

Dan: Instead of just giving our listeners some piece of the puzzle, why don’t I walk you through a whole process. Imagine I’m starting a business with you right now, and the process we’ll go through it through a profitable business. Then, that way, you’ll be able to see the whole process and get behind the scenes and behind what my thought processes are. First, what you need like I said, you want to find a niche. You want to find a want. You need a sellable product that people want to buy. Here’s the key – that people actually want to buy, not what you think people want to buy.

Terry: How am I going to find out?

Dan: The stuff they’re already buying. Now, what you want to do is we have this new product, this little gadget. You want to have a back end in place before you start marketing your product.

Terry: Can you explain back end?

Dan: Okay, what happens is let’s say we have this $30 product that’s the front end product. The back end product is what you sell them after they become your customers. Now, the biggest mistake when most people start a business is they start with one product, and then what happens is they start to market the business and they get some sales, and they realize they need more sales. Then what happens is they start panicking and search for other products to sell to their customers. Now, do not make this mistake.

So, what you want to do is you want to have a back end in place before you even start marketing your front end product because you want to save time and save money. Let’s say you are an information marketer. You teach self-defense. You teach martial arts stuff. So, your target market is people who are interested in martial arts and other stuff. It’s just a niche, and I want you to visualize an ice cream cone. It’s what I call a funnel system.

So, we’ll start from the top. The level one product is let’s say a free report – level one product. The title is “How to Easily Drop Any Attacker in Ten Seconds with One Finger”. It’s a free report so you’re giving it away for free. So, that’s level number one.

Let’s say level number two could be a DVD the same title “How to Easily Drop Any Attacker in Ten Seconds with One Finger”. Let’s say you sell that for $49 or something. This is level number two.

And, level number three, let’s say you’re selling a home study course, for $797, and then level number four you can do a three day boot camp – two grand for the boot camp, and then level five could be a one on one training program with you – three thousand bucks. Different price points as you can see.

Level number six, the last level, could be let’s say a 12 month – you get a certificate and you get to be an instructor and all that stuff, ten grand. So, different price points, different back end products.

Now, once you have these back end products in place, then your next step is to develop an effective sales message. I like to call it a sales pitch because it is a sales pitch. So, you want to come up with what’s unique about this product, what’s the benefits, all that stuff, and then you do ad, and you start marketing. You don’t start marketing the level six stuff. You start with level number one.

Terry: So, you want to give away the free report first.

Dan: Yeah, you want to get in the relationship. You want people to raise their hand, “Who is interested in dropping attackers in ten seconds with one finger?” They raise their hand. They ask for the free report. Now, what you do next is just start marketing your level number two, and level number three, and level number four, level number five products to them one by one. So, start with little things, a free report, or it could be a book. It could be whatever or just a free report.

So, what you want to do is you want to get them into your funnel system, and then your objective is to keep on upgrading them to level number two, three, four, five and six. To me, this is one of the safest ways to start a business.

Here’s why – because you have all this back end in place. You don’t need as many prospects to make a nice profit, a nice income. If you’re only selling a $30 item to make a million dollars and just sell a lot of stuff, but if you have $10,000, you have $3,000, $5,000 you have $300 – it adds up very quickly. So, have a series of back end products in place, create a funnel system, develop a strong relation – just focus on getting as many people to buy a level one product. That would be the safest way to start a business.

Terry: On an average business, how many products would you have lined up as back end products? We have six with the example we just found out. Would that be typical?

Dan: It really depends on the product nature and the industries. It’s not so much how many products, Terry. It is more like different price points. I know some businesses that are very successful. They just sell a $20 item, but they have a hundred of them. It really depends, but you want to have at least a few to get started.

Terry: It is the same basic concept where you have one customer that you sell to repeatedly.

Dan: Repeatedly because it costs much more to get a new customer that selling to an existing customer. It costs five times as much.

Terry: So, if I have a business already then, I have a product that I’m selling regularly, maybe I have one or two back end products. Where would I go from here using the Quick Turn Marketing tactics and strategies?

Dan: They are both six to seven what I like to call bags of tricks I use all the time when I consult with a client. The truth is, you don’t need to know a million strategies. I know about 20 to 30 of them, and I use them all the time because they work just almost for any business in any industry. Tactic number one – make offers to the existing customers more often. I have never seen a customer list that is over-mailed. Your customers want to hear from you. If you approach them properly with good honest offers, you can contact them. Some people just contact their customers once a year amaze me. You should really contact them at least once a month. With the same product, maybe you need to have a three step mailing sequence to sell the same product. Maybe the first time they get your – kind of good, but I’ll put it away until next time. Okay, okay, and the timing is not right, but the third time you will get them.

Terry: So, you would send the exact same piece, three times?

Dan: You can have the exact same piece or the second piece can be what I call a left note. Terry, in case you didn’t get the letter, here’s the offer again. The third letter you can have the same letter. You just have the cover letter’s different. The third letter could be, “Terry, I’m puzzled. I still haven’t heard from you. This is the greatest thing since sliced bread. What’s happening? Are you still alive? But, if you take action right now, I will throw in these additional bonuses, but you have to act before the deadline.” May offers to existing customers more often.

Tactic number two would be include powerful letters with your brochures, if you have brochures. If you’re only going to mail one thing, I would recommend look at a brochure. Send a powerful sales letter instead. When you open the mailbox, and you get a brochure, it goes straight to the trashcan. But, if you get a letter, maybe with a hand written envelope, you open it and you read it. People like letters. It’s just human nature. So, if you use brochures, I would say just add a personal letter from you with your signature with a brochure will increase your sales. That’s tactic number two.

Tactic number three would be offer free gifts and bonuses. I’ve never saw anything that can sell better after offering some kind of free bonus and gifts. Let’s face it. We’re all greedy. We all want a good deal, and free, F-R-E-E, is the most powerful word in the English language.

Terry: Does this start then right from the very beginning even if you’re offering a $10 ebook, do you still add?

Dan: Absolutely. What I like to do is I want to build up the value to about five to ten times the cost of the investment. So, if you’re selling something for ten bucks, if you can build up the value to $50, it will definitely make your sales process just much easier.

Recently, I just purchased a marketing home study course from a marketer. I get all these marketing pieces all the time, and I have more marketing books than I can study. If I can get this marketing piece from this particular marketer, and it’s a good piece. It’s one hell of a piece. I look at it, “Okay, it’s kind of good.” I’m intrigued and it’s pretty good, and then okay, but it you order right now you can get this bonus, and this bonus, and this bonus. Now, the package is only $300, but I get about $3,000 worth of stuff. Guess what I do next? Fax in the order form.

Terry: Here comes the credit card.

Dan: Yeah, here comes my credit card. I’m a marketer myself, but I fall for this kind of stuff.

Terry: So, what really clinched the whole deal was the fact not necessarily the actual product, but the fact that you’re getting so much value and so much extra added bits and bites. It just puts you over the limit. And, you say, “Okay, well I’ve got to have it simply because I get all this free stuff.”

Dan: And, let me ask you Terry, do you care if they buy it because of the bonus or because of the main product?

Terry: Of course not.

Dan: A sale is just a sale. If they wanted bonuses, just give me your credit card number and whatever you want. People buy different things for different reasons. Going back to the example, the reason I bought a package is because one of the bonuses is a 200 page thick swipe file for that the marketer has used. That’s the only thing I want. I just want to get those bonuses. That guy is so smart. He’s saying you can only get the bonuses from this particular offer. So, you can not buy separately, and you can not buy in the future. You have to buy with this particular offer.

Terry: Yeah, but, it’s always that uncertainty because it’s possible that the person is telling the truth.

Dan: Yeah, but you have to have a sense of urgency in your marketing, in your sales pitch. People procrastinate. We all procrastinate. You have to have something to entice them. Here’s what our listeners should do. Look at your marketing piece. Does it answer the question, “What’s it in for me?” Does it answer the question, “What’s new?” Does it answer the question, “Why are you bugging me?” Does it answer the question, “Why should I act right now?” And the last question is, “Why should I even believe what you’re saying?” If your marketing piece handles objections, you’ve got a pretty good piece there.

Number four – use testimonials in your promotion. What other people say about you is infinitely more powerful than what you can say about yourself.

Terry: How detailed do you get? I’ve seen some testimonials where it’s just a first name and a city type thing, or do you actually say Alfred Horsham, Norway, phone number?

Dan: You want to get as detailed as possible, and here’s why. If you only have a testimonial that’s just their initial T.T., that’s it. Your prospect might be thinking, “This guy is just making up testimonials.” But, if you have a full name, a company name or even the address, even the email, even the website – do you see the difference? There’s a huge difference. You want to have it as detailed as possible. You can never have too many testimonials.

Let me give you an example. I think recently I stumbled across a website that they’re selling weight loss products and stuff – how to lose weight, how to look good, and all that stuff. This particular website they show you before and after pictures. You look at it. You don’t believe it. They only have one or two. You don’t believe it if they have ten. Now, they have 125 – that’s pretty damn hard to believe that!

Now, on a website, you don’t have to show it all on one page. There’s a marketer, a very famous Internet Marketer, Marlon Sanders. He’s selling an ebook called “Amazing Formula”, and what Marlon did is he showed about ten testimonials on his website, but he has 100 pages of testimonials that you can click if you want to read it. Nobody will read the 100 pages of testimonials, at least I won’t. But, if you look at it – this guy has 100 pages of testimonials for his ebook. That’s got to be good. It is a good one. I’m not saying that. It’s a great book. Some people don’t even collect them. It’s ridiculous. Some people don’t even collect them.

Terry: How would you go about collecting them?

Dan: Here’s what I do. Whenever you go the extra mile, whenever you just perform your product or services the whatever, just ask them – say someone sends me an email, and they say, “Well, Dan, I enjoy your newsletter. I enjoy your products. I like your stuff – blah, blah, blah.” I just say, “Well, thank you. Would you mind writing me a testimonial so I can put this on my website?” And, very often they say, “Sure.” Because they’re happy at the moment. You want to get them while they’re hot. If I go and ask them in three or four months, they’re not as eager and as hot. So, you want to get them when you go the extra mile or when you just made a sale and ask for the testimonial. And, you want their testimonial to be specific, by the way. Instead of saying “Terry is a great guy.” “Using Terry’s techniques and the benefits of his membership site, I have made $5,931.32 in 27 days.” So, using testimonials is tactic number four.

Tactic number five would be offer a money back guarantee. If currently you don’t have a money back guarantee for your product or services, I urge you to test this. I almost guarantee you, you’ll find your sales will dramatically improve. The biggest problem is people are very skeptical nowadays mainly they’ve all been burned so many times. For example, for my package it’s called, “Million Dollar Copywriting Secrets” – for that particular package, I offer a one year money back guarantee plus $100 out of my pocket guarantee. That means they can order the package, take one year – not 30 days or 60 days – one year, to decide if they want to keep it, and if they don’t like it or won’t say it’s worth at least ten times what they paid, I’ll personally refund their money, plus I’ll pay them $100 out of my pocket just to say thank you for giving it a try. That tells you a lot about how much confidence I have for what I sell.

So, the question to our listeners is, “How much confidence do you have for what you sell?” Can you offer the 30 day money back guarantee? Can you offer a 90 day money back guarantee? How about a lifetime money back guarantee? Now, all these guarantees better be unconditional. Forget about those conditional guarantees. That’s crap. Or, even maybe a better than risk-free guarantee. So, if they don’t like it they can refund it and they can still keep their bonuses – that kind of stuff. You might be thinking, or our listeners might be thinking, “Well, then what if people took advantage of me and ripped me off.”

Terry: That was my next question. What percentage of people do you actually get taking you up on this thing, “I want my $100.”?

Dan: So, far I’ve never had any.

Terry: And, how many packages have you sold?

Dan: So far about 80 of them. Do you know why there isn’t any refunds? Because when they get the package, I throw in a couple of other secret bonuses just to surprise the heck out of them.

Terry: So, they don’t actually know they’re going to get it before they get the package?

Dan: No, there is a huge box. It’s like 19 tapes, and two huge binders. So, when they open the box, it’s like, “Oh, Christmas.” It’s a big package. They’re getting a ton of stuff, but when they just dig through the package, “Oh, I get this, too, and I get this and I get this.” And, they get a letter from me, it’s all these surprise bonuses. So, it’s a very serious over-delivering, always over-deliver.

Terry: Unless somebody just wanted to take advantage of you and get $100.

Dan: And, you know what? I know it will happen. If I’m selling an item for $50, and I offer a money back guarantee. Let’s say because of the money back guarantee, 100 additional people order from me, $5,000. Now, let’s say five people refund my stuff and I lose $250. Now, would you spend an additional $250 to get $5,000 in sales.

Terry: Exactly, again another no-brainer.

Dan: It’s all math. I mean I sell 80 packages because the package I sell it for $799, it’s a high-end package. If I only offer a 90 day money back guarantee, I doubt that many people would buy from me seriously. With 90 days, people are kind of, “I don’t know 90 days. Is this good? It’s $800.” Even in my sales copywriting, even if you refund it, you send it back to me on the 364th day, we refund the money.

Terry: The guarantee is actually the clincher that’s really pulling in the sales?

Dan: Yes, and if you read the sales letter, you’ll see I spend about ten paragraphs on the guarantee. First on the guarantee, you want to really elaborate on it. Like I said, you want to be very specific. Do not say satisfaction guaranteed. Whenever I hear that, I just want to choke the guy. What the heck is satisfaction guaranteed? How do I know I’m satisfied? I just say, “$5,000 in your pocket within 90 days, or I’ll refund the package.” You want to be very specific, or maybe you can promise – let’s say your website is teaching people how to start an Internet business or something like that – you say, “Okay, here’s the guarantee. I’ll guarantee that within 30 days, you’ll get your website. You’ll get your merchant account everything up and running step by step. We’ll do it all for you. If not, I’ll give you your money back.” You want to be specific. Elaborate on it. Expand on it. Do you want one more?

Terry: Yes, please.

Dan: Raise your price. Most people tend to wait too long to raise their price. When I first started writing sales letters and ads for people, my charge was like two grand at that time for sales letters, which is very low. Then, what happened is another copywriting friend of mine said, “Dan, you’re charging too low. Let’s double your price.” I doubled my price to $4,000 per letter. It didn’t affect anything. Here’s what happened to my margin. I just increased my profits by 50 percent. I didn’t get any new customers, didn’t do nothing, just doubled the price. What entitles you to raise the price is you provide a value.

Let’s say I write you a letter, Terry, at that time you pay me two grand or four grand or whatever. If the letter makes you 50 grand, do you really care if you pay me two or four, what’s the difference? Some clients even tell me, “I’ve been waiting for you to raise the price. I think you should raise the price.” So, just raise your price, and bottom line is test it. See what happens is. Say if you’re getting 100 sales a month, if you raise your price, you get less sales, but more profit. Do the math. It’s not quantity it’s all number. It’s how much money you make.

Terry: So, if they’re doing less work and making more money that’s-

Dan: Yes, if you’re selling less packages and making more money, go ahead.

Terry: That’s kind of neat because you also kind of touched on something which is we talked about your Quick Turn Marketing website. Now, you’ve also mentioned Great Copywriters website. Have you developed multiple streams of income then?

Dan: Absolutely. Very often when I consult with a client, I’ll ask, “What do you do currently to market your company?” And, they’ll say stuff like, “Oh, Dan, we are running this full page ad in this newspaper.” Or “We are doing this wonderful direct mail campaign.” Or “We’re doing a lot of broadcast fax.” Years ago, you would see a lot of faxing before faxing became illegal in the states. It’s legal in Canada.

Terry: You can not fax ads in the states anymore?

Dan: Yeah, you can not fax. It’s like a spam. But, in Canada it’s still legal my friends. In fact, I’m doing a fax campaign next week. So, faxing is a really good example. I know a lot of entrepreneurs in the states who really depend on faxing. That’s the only marketing media that drives their business. When faxing became illegal, they could no longer market through that media. They’re screwed. So, multiple streams of revenue – you should develop multiple streams of revenue in your business, or you should have multiple means of generating revenue. That could mean you have multiple businesses. That can mean you have multiple media means of generating business. That could also mean you have multiple products. We talked about in different price points. That could also mean you have the same product, but you sell it to multiple niche markets. The bottom line, the key here is don’t put all your eggs in one basket.

So, a lot of Internet marketers currently do their business primarily on the web. Think about it, if your business is 100 percent dependent on email, just knock on wood if one day the government just goes crazy and says, “No more email.” We can not email anymore, period. What the heck are they going to do?

Terry: Then your business is dead.

Dan: It’s dead. It’s dangerous to market through only just one medium. You need to have a Plan B. That if you’re an Internet marketer and you also get your list together, you capture their names plus their physical addresses is what I’d do. Okay, if anything happens to my computer, knock on wood, I’m still fine. I still have my customers with me. Take away everything I have, just leave me with my knowledge, experience and my customer base I can make it back within 90 days. So, try to develop multiple streams of revenue in your business, and try to have multiple means of generating revenue.

Terry: So, then a good example of Internet business is exactly what you said. You can have physically just one product, but as long as you’re marketing through email, through joint ventures, through calling people, through faxing people, through sending post cards.

Dan: Let’s say you’re doing all this stuff, any of your medium, if anything screws up, knock on wood, you’re okay because you have five or six ways of generating business. If you only use postcard marketing, whatever, if anything happens, you can say, “Okay, I can still”. You need to do everything. In fact, so far, personally, what I’ve found is the best way to generate traffic to a website is through offline marketing, not online marketing.

Terry: Oh, really, which method of offline marketing are you using?

Dan: For websites and stuff, a lot of people they do search engines, and a lot of my friends spend a ton of time on search engines, and they try to get up in ranking and stuff. Now, don’t get me wrong, I do all that stuff myself. All the online stuff everybody does, I do it, but what else I do is I speak to different associations to promote my services and my stuff. Guess what? Say you’re going to speak 100 people. These are all qualified prospects, and guess what I’ll give them. I don’t just speak and go home. No, no, no, no. I don’t do that. What I do is I give them a free gift. Sometimes I give them a free trial offer with one of my tape of the month programs which I talk.

So, what I’ll do is I’ll say, “I’ll give you three months for free.” Guess what? They have to give me their name, email and address. That’s 100 qualified prospects right there. How long does it take you to generate 100 qualified prospects on the Internet? Unless you’re one of the big gurus, it’s tough.

Through speaking, I’m also testing, running ads in magazines. I’m doing, like I said, broadcast fax. I feel a little guilty right now, and I also do a lot of joint ventures offline through their mail of my products and then my websites as well.

Think of it this way, the more ways you have to generate traffic for your website, to drive people to your website, the better.

Terry: You just mentioned something about magazine ads. How do you go about creating an effective magazine ad because there’s so many magazines, there’s so many ads in each magazine, how do you make yours stand out?

Dan: Let’s turn the question around. Let me ask you Terry – do you read magazines?

Terry: Yes.

Dan: What’s your hobby? What kinds of magazines do you read?

Terry: I’m very much into computers, online business and marketing.

Dan: Okay, so this is opportunity magazines, computer magazines and that kind of stuff. When you buy magazines what do you read?

Terry: I look through the headlines, and if the headlines are interesting on the front cover, then I’ll buy the magazine.

Dan: What kind of stuff do you read? Articles, right?

Terry: Yes.

Dan: Do you sometimes look for ads and stuff?

Terry: Because I’m in marketing, if something catches my eye, then I’ll read it.

Dan: Okay, but most people, they mainly buy the magazines because of the articles. So, when you create an ad, guess what you want to do? Make it look like an article. Don’t use fancy graphics and colorful pictures, but some magazines they have regulations and rule, but make it as close as you can. Use the same font, same size, everything is the same. Pretty much, you want to confuse the readers, “This is one of the articles.” In a magazine, endorsing this stuff, the magazine is writing kind of rave review of this guy or this product or this service, and at the end, then you have your little perk. You can have a coupon. You can ask them to call you or go to your website, whatever. That’s how you want to do it. Unless you’re selling a very low ticket item like a book for ten bucks or twenty bucks and stuff, then you can make direct sales through a full page ad or half a page ad.

But, magazines and stuff are the most effective way to do send this is to generate leads. So, you have a free report or something like that.

Terry: So, you don’t physically try and sell.

Dan: No, you’re expecting people to read your ad. You’ll catch their attention, get them all motivated and excited and pick up the phone and call you and give you money through one step. That’s tough, but if you do it the other way just getting them. “I have this free report. If you’re interested, call this 24 hour recorded message, and we’ll send it to you for free.”

Terry: So, all you’re looking for is people to raise their hand and say, “I’m interested.”

Dan: Yep, I’m interested, and then you can keep marketing them.

Terry: And, then you sell them after.

Dan: Exactly. By the way, one more tip for you. If you’re going to give out a phone number, people don’t like to call sales people. If you can offer a 24 hour recorded message.

Terry: So, it’s a very non-threatening.

Dan: Yeah, so they don’t fell like, “I’m going to call, and then I’m going to get a pitch.” People don’t like that. They know they’re going to call a recorded message, leave their address. Be a little romantic, my friend, take it slow and get their address, send them stuff, and send them offer.

Terry: You said you’re not a creative person. The majority of your ads and your sales copy, do they come from your swipe files? Where do they come from?

Dan: What I do – and, I won’t recommend what I do for our listeners because I’ve been doing this for so long. I kind of have a swipe file in my own head. To answer your question, I would say, sometimes I create from scratch. Sometime, if an industry that I have already written for, I’ll just look through my swipe files to see what I have, but that’s me.

Most of our listeners, they are not professional copywriters. I don’t recommend them to be professional copywriters because I can tell you it’s tough as hell to be a professional copywriter. It’s one of the highest paid professions in the world, but it’s also one of the toughest. It’s like public speaking.

Terry, for our listeners, they don’t have to be that good. They don’t have to be as good as I am. They don’t have to be as good as other good copywriters. So, what happens is for most people, they just have to be a little better because 99 percent of the advertisements in the industry suck. They have no benefits, no headlines, nothing – just a logo and company and all that crap. There’s a saying, “In the Kingdom of the blind, the man with one eye is king.” Just create average copy and do it extremely well.

I would highly recommend them to fill, like I said, a swipe file. Buy stuff from the mail, get on the mailing list, and even buy a bunch of magazines – Entrepreneur, other magazines that have a lot of direct response ads, and they have a lot of free report offers and stuffs that we just talked about it. Respond to all of them because a lot of them are free. Sometimes they ask you to pay for stamps and all that stuff – pay them two bucks, three bucks whatever to get a bunch of stuff.

What our listeners want to do is whenever they want to create an ad or whatever, let’s say they’re selling to the weight loss industry. They can takes ad from body building or other industries, just take the essence, take the concept, tweak it a bit, and just apply.

Terry: Do you apply a concept from another industry to bring yourself to life?

Dan: Yes.

Terry: When you do that, for example, if you were going to take a bodybuilding direct mail piece or a bodybuilding ad, we convert it into a weight loss ad. Then, we need to test that and see if it works in our industry, in the weight loss industry.

Dan: Absolutely.

Terry: Once we run that ad, we get some decent response, what would be the first thing that you would change or try and test because when you’re testing you only change one thing at a time, right?

Dan: Yes, correct.

Terry: If you can just give us a list of first, second, third things to test.

Dan: That’s a good question because you must test, but what the hell are you supposed to test. The first thing you want to test I would say is the mailing list or the emailing list, for a magazine, it would be the publication. The first thing you want to test is try to mail to a different group of people because you want to ask yourself, “Are you selling to a group of prospects or suspects?” There’s a huge difference between the two. Suspects are people who you think want your stuff. Prospects are people who actually want your stuff and who’s got the money to pay for them.

Now, you’re going to do your homework. You’ve got to talk to them and get to know your prospects and stuff. So, that’s the first thing I would tell you – the mailing list or the emailing list if you’re doing Internet marketing.

Terry: Okay, so we take one ad. We send it out to a weight loss ezine. We send the same ad to a weight loss ezine, but a different one.

Dan: Yes, that’s the first thing. The second thing you should test is your envelope for direct mail. For Internet, it would be, guess what, your subject line. It’s always the same concept. Are you getting people to open your mail or open your email? And, for direct mail you can test plain envelopes versus the copy in the subject line talk about. Then, only after you test the list, after the envelope, then I would tweak the copy. I would test the copy.

Here’s why – it doesn’t matter how good your copy is, if you’re mailing to the wrong people or your prospects, if they’re not reading them, what’s the point of tweaking the sales pitch? It doesn’t help at all. So, you want to test it. I can tell even a world class copy mailing to the wrong people won’t get any respond. Average copy mailed to good prospects will get some response.

Next, I would test is the offer. Can you make the offer more irresistible? Can you add some bonuses that we talked about? Can you offer a stronger guarantee? We’re talking about all this stuff before you change a single word in the copy. So, mailing list, envelope or subject line, then you test the offer.

Then, only then, when you test all of those three, then you test the headline. Then, you change the headline – try different combinations. Then, the next thing you test is your opening paragraph, the first paragraph, then your order form. You won’t believe how many people that are looking at your order form, but if your order form sucks and it’s not compelling enough.

Terry: So, what kinds of things can I put on an order form that is really going to clinch it?

Dan: The most powerful elements from your copy. Let’s say your headline promised how to drop any attackers in ten seconds with one finger. So, the order form would kind of just restate that. “Yes, Terry, I want to discover the secrets on how to drop any attackers in ten seconds with one finger.” You want the order form it’s like they’re talking to themselves. “Yes I want this.” “Oh, by the way because of your guarantee, it makes me feel really safe to order.” That kind of stuff.

Big time, it’s like they’re talking to themselves. “Plus, because I’m ordering right now, I know I will get these bonuses, blah, blah, blah. Thank you very much. I’m clicking the order button right now.” You want to give direct commands. You don’t want to be wishy washy.

So, you test the order form, then you can test your P.S. Then, you can test your price. Then you can test sub-headlines and bullets and all that stuff. I would say test the big components first – the mailing list, the envelope, the offer, the headline – before we can test the small stuff.

If you have a good copy, it’s pulling some sales. If you’re mailing to a different group of prospects who are more qualified, you’ll get a lot more sales because tweaking of copy is not work.

Terry: If you don’t mind I’m going to put you on the spot for a second. We’ve gone through a whole list of things that should be tested. Can you go to www.thebusinessprofessional.com  .

Dan: Let me go there right now. I’m there.

Terry: That’s a site I’ve created. What’s wrong with it? It’s in the process of being tested.

Dan: And, how many visitors are you getting? What’s your conversion rate? Out of how many people, how many will buy from you?

Terry: Less than one percent right now, actually.

Dan: The funny thing is on the Internet, one percent is pretty good. First of all, Terry, sorry to hurt your feelings, but this copy sucks! It stinks! It’s horrible! Let’s start at the beginning. “Succeed Online Following in the Footsteps of the Masters” – first of all the headline, what’s in it for me? You need to answer the question, but to succeed online is too vague.

“Discover the Amazing Secrets of the Smartest and Savviest Internet Marketers in the World” – same thing. Here’s the thing. People don’t want to work. People don’t like to learn. People don’t want to work. People want a magic pill. So, you want to provide a magic solution. You don’t want to ask them to work and all that stuff. Your header’s all right. You can use something looking more fancy, cash, more visual.

Terry: So, really kind of pump up the excitement side of it.

Dan: People buy because of emotion, and they justify the purchase with logic, and you’ve got to remember that. I’m not talking about hype. I’m talking about excitement. You need to be dramatic. You need to have a big promise.

There’s a saying in business, “Under promise and over-deliver”, right. That is totally out of date. Nowadays, if you under promise, nobody’s going to buy from you. You need to over-promise and over-deliver. You need to make a big giant promise. Ask yourself this question, “What is the biggest promise you can make?” What is the biggest, biggest, absolute boldest biggest promise you can make?

Let’s see, I like your picture though. Why? Because it builds credibility. They look at the picture of you smiling – warm and fuzzy. That’s good. Signature’s good. So, the headline needs to be tweaked. Maybe the picture a little bit smaller.

In the first paragraph, you tell them what they’re going to get. I’m going to give you the raw stuff. I’m going to give you the facts. What you should do is you want to talk about the benefits. One of my favorite ways to open a first paragraph is, “If, then” “If, then”. I’ll give you an example, “If you would like to discover how you can make a full-time income on the Internet in your underwear and blah, blah, blah, then, this will be the most important message you ever read.” Something like that. Suck them in.

Terry: Again, dramatic, but not hypist.

Dan: Not hypist because you know what? There’s too much hype on the Internet. That’s the problem. Here’s the difference. In direct mail, you can hype it up. That’s fine, but on the Internet there’s too much hype. You have to find a balance. You want to hype it up, but you want to talk about a lot of benefits. The objective for the first paragraph is to get them to read the second paragraph, and the objective of the second paragraph is?

Terry: To get them to read the third one.

Dan: You’ve got it, just to suck them in. There’s the first paragraph. I don’t get enough information exactly what I’m going to get. What’s in it is what I’m going to get. What am I paying for? Are you worry that the copy’s too long or what?

Terry: Yes, actually it looks pretty good. I was actually trying to keep the copy fairly short because personally I get bored with copy that goes on and on and on that’s 30 pages long.

Dan: Okay, here’s the mistake that you’re making. You are not your customers. I don’t read long copy. Nobody reads long copy, right? You won’t. Your prospects, your customers will.

Terry: But, I don’t like long copy when I’m a customer.

Dan: The rule of thumb is the more you tell, the more you sell, and here’s why – when people before they give you money, especially on the Internet, they want to know, “Who’s this guy?” You need to build credibility. You need to capture their attention. You need to build up the value. You need to give them the benefits. Then, you need to insert that sense of urgency to act right now. You can’t do those in a few paragraphs. There’s a lot of stuff there.

Here’s why – copywriting is nothing more than salesmanship in print. Imagine this – I’m a sales guy. I’m trying to sell my vacuum cleaner. I knock on your door. I say, “Terry” – I use one minute to pitch you, “Here’s my vacuum cleaner, blah, blah, blah, but it.” Or if I take – I vacuum your floor for free, you carpet for free, and all that stuff, and I take about half an hour to explain all the benefits to you and the money back guarantee and how great this machine is and give you all the facts, it’s much more likely you’ll buy. It’s the same. The more you tell, the more you sell.

So, definitely more benefits. I want to see a lot of bullets of what I get. What kind of features do you have?

Terry: The biggest part of this is the interviews.

Dan: Okay, so, let’s say the interview itself is just the feature.

Terry: Yes.

Dan: So, you can talk about your guest – interviews with best marketers in the world, whatever. That’s a feature. What you want to do is after the feature, you want to add a benefit.

Terry: I mention the feature first, and then tell them the benefit.

Dan: Yes, if you’re going to use features. Personally, I like to just open them with benefits. But, you talk about the features, then you can talk about, “Dan, you can listen to these interviews and pick up tricks and strategies that you can apply to your business and make more money.” That’s the benefit.

Don’t assume they’ll know the benefits. They don’t. You have to tell them, and I want to see a lot more compelling sub-headlines. I mean, it worked for me. It worked for you, and now it’s your turn. Show me the money. It’s not compelling enough.

Terry: What would you use instead?

Dan: I see your headlines right beside your picture. I see a little bit of story. I want to know more. I want to know more about you and who’s this guy, what qualifies you to do this. People are as skeptical as hell. Let’s put it this way. You’ve got to tell them everything. Tell them a story that they can relate to. That’s what’s going to really attract them. Tell them a story, “I have been there. I’ve fought all the evils. I have tried this, and it’s not generating sales.” Which is true, right? That is why you to develop this website to help other entrepreneurs to give them really none of this bullshit, sugar-coated stuff. This is the facts. This is no-hype information – that kind of stuff.

Then, obviously, you want to have some kind of bonuses – entice them, money back guarantee, 30 day, okay. Tell them all the benefits. That’s the goal in my website, Greatest Copywriters. Work on the guarantee, expand on it, tell them.

I’ll show you another trick. You want to somehow make this thing for free. You want to compare apples to oranges. They are paying pennies to get this knowledge. You can somehow compare, “Okay, this month, you can spend $500 on ebooks and three grand on Internet seminars and all that stuff. Now, you can just sit at your home. I bring you the best stuff. You don’t have to lift a finger. I’ll bring you the best of the best, most up to date knowledge, updated every month. So, you can save all that money compared to the tens of thousands you spend. You’ll only spend $30-$40 a month.” That kind of stuff. So, that they can justify the purchase, right? That’s the logic part of it.

Terry: What do you think about, and we’ve been discussing as well because I work with another couple of people and kind of bounce off ideas – what do you think about having the first month free?

Dan: I would recommend that because it’s kind of monthly continuity program. I market a continuity program myself. I use a free trial as well. So, you can definitely test that. Of course, make sure you do the numbers. The great thing about the Internet it doesn’t really cost you anything. So, obviously an upgrade doesn’t really matter. The cost is little. So, you can afford to do it, and plus do the math and know your numbers. Go for it.

You can talk about it right in your headline, “Discover the Secrets, blah, blah, blah”, and say, “Urgent Message – if you act within the next three days, you’ll get it for free. It doesn’t cost you a dime. I’m going to put myself on the line to prove to you this is really the best stuff.”

Terry: So, actually put part of the guarantee right in the headline.

Dan: Yes, tell them why they’re buying. “What’s in it for me?” And, the last thing I would say is the sense of urgency, why should they act right now? There is some other membership websites out there, right?

Terry: Yes.

Dan: Just compare yourself to them. Why you? Why should they pick you instead of someone else? And, tell them, “I’ve done the research. I’m a member of all these websites. Website A this is what you get. Website B this is what you get. Website C this is what you get. But, with me it’s the business professional. You’ve got this and this and this that none of these websites have, and for only this price.” That’s compelling.

There are two types of buyers. One type is what I call emotional buyers. I’m an emotional buyer. I read the headline and I scan the copy. I look at the price. I like it and I buy it. I don’t read through all the copy unless I want to sell you. An article is more like an article. They read every single word you right. They look at everything. They want to make sure absolutely, know exactly what they get. The kind of people who read every single one of the testimonials, and they will click the website to check on them to make sure the testimonial is real.

Terry: Very detail oriented.

Dan: Yes, that’s the two types of buyers. You want to appeal to both buyers, and here’s what you do. You want to have click order links throughout the copy because after you’ve done all the other stuff, I suggest your copy will be pretty damn long. That thing will be six, seven pages. My copywriting package, my sales letters is 13 pages long. Thirteen pages long on a website, that’s pretty long. That’s a big one. It’s probably an $800 package. If it’s an ebook, I can make it three or four pages.

So, you want to make it easy for the emotional buyers so they don’t have to read the stuff, just click and order. Okay, that’s one thing. And, of course for the one who’s more detailed-oriented, and then you can just let them read all the stuff. Very unlikely they’ll get to the end. After the read the P.S., then they’ll click the last link to order. So, you want to have links throughout the copy.

Maybe get more testimonials. You can never have too many testimonials. That’s pretty much it.

Terry: Beautiful. Well, I’m going to put everything into action. I’ll let you know the results. Now, that we’ve done my website, and I will get everything on line or on-track there, just a couple of last points. You’ve been a part of a lot of successful businesses in one way or another, mostly on the marketing side. What do you feel is the best lesson that you’ve learned? What makes you a real success?

Dan: If I had to name one secret that has biggest impact in my life, it would be finding a mentor. Find someone who’s been there, who’s done that. I have quite a few mentors in my own life. I have a business mentor. I have a marketing mentor. I have a copywriting mentor. And, what I suggest is you want to find mentors who are a hell of a lot more successful than you are.

Terry: And, who are your mentors?

Dan: For my business mentor I have Mr. Dan Tanya. Dan has built a company from scratch to $400 million in eight years. I learned a lot of my business principles and even success principles from him.

For my marketing mentor I like Gary Halbert’s stuff, Jay Abraham. My copywriting mentor, our listeners won’t know him. His name is Alan Jacks. He’s not a guru, but he’s a very, very good copywriter. He’s a Canadian by the way, and he owns a company in Vancouver which sells basically high-end seminars, like four to five grand seminars, money-making stuff. This guy, he has millions and millions of dollars worth of products and services.

Well, I learn from him. He’s tough on me. I’m telling you, Terry. The first time I wrote copy, he looked at it and guess what he did?

Terry: Probably what you just did to my website.

Dan: No, he just tore it apart right in front of me and threw it in the trash can. He said, “This is garbage. Do it again.” That’s how he trained me, man. I almost wanted to cry in front of him. I spent five days doing this, and he just, “Do it again”, right. The second time I went back, the same thing happened, and then that happened about five times. The last version of it, he said, “This is what the hell I’m talking about. This is good copy.” I’m like, “Okay.”

Terry: So, did you work for him.

Dan: I worked for him, and I worked for him for next to nothing, but I learned something. The education I got from him was worth a ton of money. He’s semi-retired. He doesn’t do much anymore. He just fish all day. So, there’s my copywriting mentor.

So, I would recommend our listeners, whenever I want to learn something new I always find someone is who extremely good at their arena, and learn from him or her. There’s a saying, “You have to do it by yourself, but you can’t do it alone.” Here’s what I say to my clients, “If you can get there by yourself, you would already be there.” Constantly push the envelope and you need a mentor to kind of make you do things that are uncomfortable. So, someone who will push you out of your comfort zone. Keep learning, keep fighting, and surround yourself with people who are smarter than you. That’s critical. If you’re the smartest person on your team, your company’s in trouble, and share your wealth and pay your people well.

Terry: Thank you very much.

Dan: Thank you, Terry and thank you to Michael for me too.