John: How are you doing?

Michael: I’m doing very well. Just getting ready to tackle the day.

John: You’re down in San Diego, right?

Michael: Yes, I’m in San Diego.

John: You had mentioned to me that you had some products that you had taken to retail.

Michael: Yes, for 10 years I’ve been manufacturing pens right out of my house. When I say pens, I started . . . I had developed a pen that detects counterfeit currency. You swipe it across the bill, and if it turns yellow it means the bill is good; if it turns black, it means the bill is bad. It’s basically a starch detector pen. I didn’t invent it; there was another person who was marketing it and I was looking for new products. This was eight years ago, and I figured out how to make a pen without any machinery and I started selling those. Then I branched off and developed a pen that removes redeye from photographs and sold those to over – I’m in over 1000 one-hour photo labs and camera stores all over the country and in different parts of the world, too. It’s a great little business because the margins are incredible. I can make a pen for 17 cents and I wholesale them by the hundred for $1.50 a piece. So there’s real nice margins, it was a business I could operate out of an apartment. I could then control all the manufacturing right out of a one-bedroom apartment. Since then, I’m married with kids, and have a house, but I still operate the pen business. And then I moved on to another pen . . . you know, just different markets. Different pens that solved different problems in different markets. It’s all the same. The only thing different was what goes in it and the problem it solved. You see? So I did that and that was my bread and butter. Then I wanted to learn how to market my pen business better and I got into studying marketing. That’s how I got into the seminars and stuff.

John: How does your program exactly work?

Michael: What I wanted to talk to you about . . . first of all, I was wondering if it was OK if I recorded this conversation.

John: Uh-huh.

Michael: OK. Then what I wanted to know is what are your goals? What do you want to do? That we’ve got to be clear on. You said that you have people coming to you and wanting to know how you . . . wanted to learn about your story . . . and your friend said you should stop giving this stuff away for free. So, a light went off in your head, and you’re saying to yourself ‘OK, I don’t want to give this stuff for free and I want to sell this information’. So I want to know what kind of ideas are you kicking around in your head that you want to do.

John: Well, I had mentioned to you that Harvey Brodie (?), who’s an acquaintance/friend of mine, who is a professor at USC and also UCLA in regards to marketing classes. He’s in his early 70’s, owns four or five companies that have been very, very successful, was financially secure quite some time ago, but decided he liked continued work. Like I said, he had several products and . . .

Michael: Now I know who he is actually.

John: We’ve gotten to know each other because I’m working on a project right now for a company called Hampton Brinks. He mentioned to me … He said ‘John, you give all this information away. These are why these companies are coming to you, these people are coming to you, because you’re just like handing it to them.’ So, he had given me a phone number and that’s how it led to you. At this point, I developed a product about four years ago, from inception. I worked with Dupont and all the R&D, because all the products I managed to get into Home Depot immediately.

Michael: What’s the product?

John: It’s a dry film lubricant. It works … it’s actually … the polymer itself, the lubricant itself, was developed by DuPont at the request of NASA. It’s used on the space shuttle to lubricate the breakers, and this and that. It’s completely dry and has a very low coefficient of friction. Once you put it on, it can last up to three years.

Michael: It’s like a powder?

John: No, it’s not a powder at all. It’s actually a polymer. Comes in an aerosol can and there’s a delivery system in an aerosol can, once it’s delivered, the delivery system immediately dries off within a matter of seconds and leave the polymer behind.

Michael: So is it kind of a WD40, but a dry version?

John: Well, WD40 is not a lubricant. WD40 is a petroleum product. This is not a petroleum product. It’s like Teflon. It’s completely clear; you can spray it on a piece of glass and you can’t even see it. But yet if you spray this in the tracks of a window or a key way, or a lock or a hinge or whatever, it will immediately stop squeaking. That window will move 50% easier for up to three years.

Michael: What’s it called at Home Depot?

John: It’s called Easy Glide RD50.

Michael: Easy Glide RD50.

John: It’s been in Home Depot Stores. What happened is, my product retails for $5.97. The margin that Depot works off of is 43%. So, they’re making about $2.50 a can. WD40, who is probably my largest competitor, and I say competitor – and I’ll explain that in a minute – their product sells for $1.76 and Depot makes 17 cents. Granted if you sell 100 cans a week, or 125 cans a week, at 17cents, we could go to McDonalds and have lunch, whereas, if they sell 100 cans of my product, they make $250. So, immediately what happened, management – either store management or division management – recognized the fact that that, yes, WD-40 is selling ahead of me. They’re selling 120 cans a week. I’m only selling 60 or 70, but the 60 or 70 at $2.50 far surpass the profits of selling 120 cans of WD-40. So, immediately they marched me up to the front of the stores – they give me what they call end-caps which is at the end of the aisles – 4 feet wide. We designed a wire type thing we call a shadow box, holds 150 cans, got POP all over it. Our sales have continued to grow over the last four years. In fact, our last six months have all been record months, right next to each other. What happened a year ago, Depot does not like single skew vendors.

Michael: What’s a single skew vendor?

John: A vendor that only supplies one product. Skew meaning a stock-keeping unit. They look at companies and say we’re buying 100 different items from this company. So, they’ve got 40 different, or 20 different items. Like spray paints, or whatever it might be, but there’s several skews to that company that they place orders for. They don’t like companies that supply only one item. It costs them just as much to do paperwork and cut checks and everything for a one-item company as it does a 100-item company.

Michael: Now, at what point were you made aware of that?
John: Depot went to a company by the name of Pimeline out in San Bernardino. They did about $40 million/year at Depot. They have about 180 skews in each Depot store. If you go in a Depot store, maybe in the hardware section, and you see where all these parts are for replacement parts for sliding glass doors, screen doors, door viewers . . .

Michael: I know exactly what you’re talking about – there’s a red packaging . . .

John: They have about 180 different items in each Home Depot store nationwide.

Michael: So, Depot went to them and had them give you a call to buy it out. And that’s what happened?

John: Right.

Michael: So, Depot said you may want to check this product out. We’d like you to handle it. It’s this guy’s only product. They gave him the numbers. This guy could see that it was a moneymaker and then made you an offer.

John: Exactly.

Michael: So, you sold it out to them . . .

John: I sold it out to them. I am the manager of that division of the company. I actually bought the company, which was called Easy Glide Corporation.

Michael: Are you under contract where you have to work with them?

John: No.

Michael: So you could walk away from them and never worry about it again.

John: Right. But I do get paid a royalty over a period of 10 years. And I get paid out my – the buy out – over a period of five years. But I do work for them and I’m paid a salary. But like I said, what happened is in my travels, as people have gotten to know me, business acquaintances, and so forth, everybody’s question was how did you get this in the store, how did you do this? How did you not only get it into the store, how did you get it in end-caps in the front of the stores? How did you get 11 different locations in the stores? Who came up with the packaging? Who came up with the marketing plan? How do you improvise all this? How is all this kept in order? Where do you find service companies? Where do you find sales reps? If you want to get into Home Depot, who do you call? That’s the biggest thing.

Michael: What are some more questions?

John: Just a lot of those types of questions where some guy’s got some little widget – whatever it is. It could be a great product. He has absolutely no idea. You just don’t go to the front door of Home Depot and say ‘Here’s what I’ve got. Can I put this in your stores?’ It’s very involved, but yet it’s very simple.

Michael: So what you did with your product and your success story is you taught the little guy and they had a product that the market wanted and would sell, the little guy could basically … I don’t want to say get rich overnight because it sure wasn’t an overnight process … make some good money if they could do what you did. Can I ask what … I mean is it private information … what you ended up selling it for?

John: Ah, no.

Michael: I was just curious.

John: The royalties over a period of 10 years are substantial. Let’s put it that way.

Michael: Could it make you a millionaire?

John: It very well could.

Michael: Great. Okay, continue …

John: The money portion to me was not the big incentive(?).

Michael: I know, that’s irrelevant. With entrepreneurs like us, it’s irrelevant. It’s the game.

John: It was walking into Home Depot after I left their offices – walking into their stores a month later – and seeing my product scattered all over the store. That was the highlight.

Michael: Now, you did everything – you handled all the marketing, the POP, all that.

John: Everything.
Michael: That was your responsibility.

John: Everything. Develop the product. Literally took the pictures that are on the can and all the POP for the different uses, developed the displayers . . . everything from A to Z. I was pretty much a one-man operation.

Michael: And as a wider rule, with Home Depot you can’t . . . you’ve got to know what they want, don’t you?

John: Right.

Michael: So, all these questions that you’ve just given me are things that would be included in a course on how to do this. How to get your product into Home Depot and possibly make a million dollars.

John: Not necessarily Home Dept. It could be any …

Michael: Could be Lowe’s, could be Depot …

John: Ace Hardware, Best, True Value; I just got the product into the fishing industry. This will probably be one of the biggest things that hit the fishing industry in years because in a fishing business, there’s 100 companies making lures that they say will catch a fish better. Or this hook is better, or this reel is better. We introduced the product to the fishing industry. I hired a gentleman who’s a two-time world champion fisherman. He is a spokesman only because of all the people he knew. It was like hiring Tiger Woods to sell your golf clubs. His name is Dan Kadoda Dan is also a manufacturer’s rep. He works for – are you a fisherman?

Michael: No, I’m not.

John: Well, he works for Shimano, the largest fishing reel manufacturer in the world. I also met his brother who owns the other half of the company, which is all of the bicycle derailleurs, all the bicycle parts, all made by the same company. This is who I hooked up with. He also reps for Loomis, which is like the Mercedes of fishing rods, which run from $300 to $600 each.

Michael: How does this benefit a fisherman?

John: What they do is they spray it on the reels, they spray it on the line and everything, it enhances tackling. It has been tested by several people that write magazine articles for fishing type magazines and what have you in regards to protectant qualities of the product. I’ve got editorials that people have written that have been testing the product for quite some time. It resists any kind of rust or corrosion. It acts as a line dressing and the lines don’t crack. All in all, it has a lot of attributes and a lot of benefits where fishing is concerned.

Michael: How did this all start with this product? How did you get involved in it? Were you the one who originated it? Explain the . . .

John: I was in the aluminum extruding business and the plastics injection molding business. My business was - the last 30 years was – you’ve probably stayed at hotels where the drapery rods that are on the ceiling that the draperies travel on, they have that little wand that hangs down and you pull the drapes back and forth – well I was the manufacturer of all the component parts. I extruded the aluminum, manufactured all the plastic component parts that went into those traverse rods, and my customers were the Hyatts and the Hiltons and the Mirages, and the list went on and on and on. Shipped over 15, 20 thousand feet a day of just drapery track. I was looking for a lubricant that could be sprayed on drapery tracks – that the drapery tracks could be treated to ease the operation of these drapery rods. The easier they moved, the less people jerked and pulled on the draperies and did damage to the draperies. So, I was originally looking at Teflon. But, of course, Teflon has to be put on at 400 degrees, and you can’t put something on plastic at 400 degrees – you’d melt it. So the long and the short of the story was I worked with DuPont and there was a product out there that was developed for NASA – a lubricant product that was completely odorless, wouldn’t leave any stains, resisted any kind of contaminants. All the attributes of the product were perfect for this type of application.

Michael: Did DuPont own it?

John: DuPont manufactures the polymer only. DuPont doesn’t manufacture any actual products – finished products that are sold retail. They only manufacture . . .like for instance, carpets; they all advertise with Stainmaster by DuPont. Well, they offer the yarn or the polymer that’s used in the polyester carpet. They do not actually manufacture the carpet.

Michael: What is a polymer technically?

John: A polymer is the chemical name for it is PTFE, it’s a very long chemical name. What it is it’s a synthetic. In the barrel form – the raw form – which I purchase the product, it almost looks like a Vaseline or a paste. This in turn is diluted with different types of solvents and everything to bring it down to where it can be put into an aerosol can. The solvents are nothing more than a delivery system for the polymers.

Michael: I’m with you.

John: If you were to take the polymers and just put it on your fingers, in a matter of seconds – once exposed to the air – it complete just completely dries out.

Michael: The polymer does.

John: Right. It dries to a solid state. And leaves a coating similar to what would be on the bottom of a pot or a Teflon pan.

Michael: I’m with you.

John: But Teflon, of course, is put on at 400 degrees. It’s a coating that’s used for anti-stick. So, that’s basically a . . .

Michael: Alright, so that’s how you were introduced to it. You worked with it, you developed it, you got it in a can, and you brought it to light.

John: Right. At that point - once I had the hotel industry interested in it, and this was something that we coated our tracks with and advertised it, that our drapery tracks were coated with this. Once the industry got a hold of the fact that these tracks worked so much smoother and reduced drapery damage by people pulling on the drapes themselves, we became specified as … in other words, Hyatt for instance, would when building a new hotel or renovating a hotel, and it included replacing the drapery rods, and on their spec sheet to their suppliers would say the only tracks that would be accepted were by TBS (?), which was my company. We therefore came out with an aerosol can for aftermarket. In other words, if you had a hotel that you wanted the drapes to work really well, spray it in you locks or hinges or bi-fold doors, or dressers, track system, or anything that moved in the room, but you wanted it to be completely invisible, no odor, and no anything. Anything that you could make work easier would alleviate John damage. Because you know people in hotels.

Michael: Right. There’s a lot of drapery damage. When these things get stuck they rip the drapes. Is that a big problem with drapes?

John: Oh, yeah. Definitely. One of my key businesses was also the family drapery business for the hotel industry for 35 years. Our biggest threat were these people who came in and yanked on the drapes. Anyhow, when I took over the company, I wasn’t really all that interested in the sewing business as much as I was in producing tracks and all these systems that went out to these hotels worldwide. We did projects all over Guam, and all over the Orient. It was quite a lucrative business. It did very well.

Michael: That’s interesting.

John: But anyhow, so …

Michael: Now let me ask you. You sold the company – the Home Depot version – are you free to market this product to other industries. Like this product you’re introducing to the fishing industry. Are your hands not tied with the company who bought it from you representing Home Depot, or are you free to market to other markets as you did with the Home Depot?

John: No, they own the product.

Michael: They own the product. You’re doing marketing to the fishing industry, but they own it.

John: Everything I do is through Primeline Corporation.

Michael: Okay, got you.

John: We got into the automotive industry; we got into the marine industry. We found out that if you paint this onto the bottom of boats that algae wouldn’t stick to it, barnacles wouldn’t grow on it – a lot of different benefits as far as the product was concerned. But it enabled me to expand my marketing ideas, which I really wasn’t able to do as a single owner of the company because you’re involved in the day-to-day operations everyday.

Michael: Yes, you’re running the business.

John: It didn’t matter how well we were doing – if we wanted to introduce a product to the fishing industry – okay fine it’s going to take us $50,000. Well that’s the $50,000 we made in the last six months. We were constantly pouring the money back into it fast as we could make it.

Michael: Have you ever invented or developed stuff – well you had the drapery rod business – but this was the first thing you really invented totally new and got to market?

John: No, I’ve done several things.

Michael: You’ve always been entrepreneurial.

John: Pretty much. I’ve had several products that I’ve taken to market that have gone to the masses. I have several – two or three – that I’ve sold and licensed out which I receive royalty checks for each month. Some of them are so unrelated; you wouldn’t even believe that the same guy that did this, did this.

Michael: Well, tell me just one.

John: One of them was a product called Sports Seat. And what it was is it’s an inflatable, it’s actually one piece but it joins in the middle and it was like an air mattress type of theory but very, very thin of course.

Michael: And that’s much better than the Styrofoam ones, the ones that are squares and you have to carry the whole thing.

John: Oh, yes. They are really comfortable to sit on. It protected you from the cold if the seat was cold or was concrete or whatever.

Michael: That’s great. So, you invented that?

John: I came up with that. We private labeled it to Kodak, Sea World. It was a give away at the Indy 500 by Kodak. We sold them as an advertisement for Oscar Meyer. We made the thing look like a package of hot dogs. What I did I ended up the biggest customer really was from a premium business to the stadiums. It was a cheap enough item to where every game was like okay, today’s bat day or cap day or whatever. So, this was sports seat day.

Michael: That’s great.

John: So, what happened, a company from Anaheim came to me and they asked if they could buy the license for the product. They were in the premium business. I developed the thing for whatever reason, I was on the telephone with my brother one evening and we started to talk about something and the next thing I know, I’m talking to some company in Taiwan who is sending me samples for whatever reason. So, that product has gone out of my hands. They have 100% license agreement for the product. And I get checks every month. So, that and like I said, I had done other things. I have some packages of items with my name that I had developed and patented. Most of the time and most of what’s happened is I end up selling the company, just selling the license of that product.

Michael: Right. You get bored and you want to sell it and move on to something else.

John: Just move on to something else for whatever reason.

Michael: So, what do you enjoy doing most? Are you now at the point where you want to help people, teach people what you’ve done and help them have some success? Like if you could see down the road that you’re going to be spending so many hours a day, obviously, you could do more marketing of the your product to others markets and have that company handle all the details of the business. And I don’t know what your arrangement is, what they pay you for handling additional sales of what or you could create your own product and teach people how to do what you’ve done and have control of that product and make everything. Where do you most enjoy your future time spent?

John: The marketing concept of everything. In other words, developing a product, developing the packaging. I know where the contacts are. Most people have a product, but they don’t know how to get it. For me, it’s just the opposite. The work is in developing the packaging so someone will pick it up. Developing how it will be marketed in the stores. Once all that’s done, the easy part is getting it into the store. That’s a piece of cake because I know where to go and how the system works and what they want to see. You have to understand what people want from this product. In other words, just going there, and putting it on a shelf at ankle height and hoping somebody is going to pick it up, it’ll never happen.

Michael: If you know how to introduce a product to the Home Depots and these stores, are they hungry? Are they looking for new products that will make them money?

John: Oh, definitely.

Michael: They’re just waiting for someone to come to them with something already done.

John: Definitely. I’ve got my second product going into Home Depot, which is probably going to be within the next 30 to 60 days and this is 1,400 stores. First time orders are just overwhelming. And I’ve got endorsements from magazines and professionals. So, that to me is developing all these different areas of marketing as far as endorsements and exposure in the stores; not so much actually getting it in there.

Michael: Well, developing an information product is no different than what you’ve been doing. If you want to create an information product that you can market and sell to people who want to learn to do what you’ve done, people will pay for your expertise. Imagine if you went to the Home Depot buyer and the Home Depot buyer gave you a list of 20 people trying to get their product into Home Depot but are just so clueless they don’t know how to do anything. Home Depot gave you those names and you contacted them, introduced yourself and told them your story of what you’ve done and you have already gotten a product into Home Deport. You’ve been through the trials and tribulations and you’ve created a course that walks them through everything they need to know to get their product in Home Depot. These people will pay you handsomely for it.

John: Oh, yes. Well, for instance, today I have a meeting down in Mission Viejo with a gentleman who has a particular lighting fixture. And I saw it three months ago and it’s a great product. I studied the existing products on the market. There’s nothing like it. Cost wise it is priced extremely below market, which would really make it attractive on the consumer level. In other words, we’re not competing against the same item or an item similar to it for $44. There is an item there for $44 and ours is $16.95 and it’s much more handsome. So, I saw a lot of potential in it. I’m meeting with him today. Here’s an exact example of what I’m saying. This man came to me and said, “John, I’ve seen your stuff in the stores.” And we got to know each other and at the same time he became a customer for another product. He actually buys my lubricant and he privately labels for an entirely different industry. It’s in all the Michael’s stores. But he and I got to know each other and like I said, he has a product and said, “Do you think we can get this into the stores?” And I said, “Sure, piece of cake.”

Michael: Are you going to help him out for free or are you going to charge him something?

John: Well, up to now everything has been for free. I get two or three phone calls from this man a day. We’ve had several meetings. But until I can actually see where this thing is heading, I’ve already shown it to people, this is what we can do with it. Now, let’s talk about what I can get out of it. This is all great and fine. I love walking away from a guy in his office that’s next door to my favorite bakery. There’s all kinds of things where this is fun, but at the same time I enjoy getting those checks every month from these different companies that I’ve done business with.

Michael: What are you more interested in, learning how to structure a deal when you talk to these people or do you want to sell a physical information product Eventually you can only meet with so many people everyday. And you certainly can’t do it for free every day because you’ve got other things you could be doing that will make you money. So, you could leverage yourself. Instead of meeting with these people, if this guy had your entire course, whether it was audiotapes, manuals, whatever and he had all that information in front of him, he wouldn’t have to meet with you. Now, may be can meet with you over the phone for a consultation, a 30-minute consultation; but only after he has gone through your course. If he had your course, he’d have everything he would need to get his lighting product into Home Deport, wouldn’t he if you laid it out for him?

John: Right. And I did. I spent all day Sunday and laid him out a six page this is what you need to do from A to Z.

Michael: That could be part of your course. So, what I could help you do is kind of give you guidance in developing and creating an information product. And then you have your tangible product. And instead of selling to Home Depot, you’re going to be selling it to people like that lighting guy or people who are interested in knowing how to get their product in the Home Depot. And I’m sure with your contacts you can find plenty of people like that.

John: Who typically is your audience?

Michael: My audience? My audience is marketing people; students of marketing. I have a wide range. But it’s a very high caliber, high educated, motivated group of mainly businessmen all over the world. They are entrepreneurial who are running companies who are selling information products, who know how to market or are learning how to market. They all study the same people. I buy and resell hard to find Jay Abraham seminars. And he is the number one marketing guru in the world. And people who study stuff have a huge edge over the average people who don’t know how to market. And that’s my clientele.
John: You mentioned doing something on audiotapes or whatever. How is this distributed and there seminars involved?

Michael: No, there’s no seminars. I do audio interviews. I’ve been recording everything we’ve been saying. You can go to my website and I’ve got all my prices up there. An audio interview to promote your product or service of website, it’s $1,295. So, basically I could take the hour … well I don’t think we’ve been talking quite an hour, we’ve been talking probably for 35-40 minutes. And you’ve said a lot of information, great information about you, your product—that’s very exciting. It gives you credibility that you laid out when you said people come to me and they ask questions about how do I do this, this. You rattled off almost 20 different questions, which is a great outline for course. I’ve captured it. I’ve got it all here on audio. I would take this audio and have it transcribed. And as you were talking, it wasn’t like you were sitting down trying to write a sales letters. You were just talking to me one on one and you’re uninhibited. And it was flowing. So, we’ve captured all that on audio. Now, I can take this audio and edited and edit out all the junk and may be like the stuff we’re talking about right now. And you’d have a very powerful lead generating tool to sell yourself, to sell who you are, your creditability, your story. You just gave me your story.

If you had someone interested in learning how to do what you did, you don’t have to talk to them. You could take this and put it on audiotape or a CD-Rom, have just a one-page introduction. Let’s say you got unlimited leads of people who have developed products and they want to try and get it into the large hardware industry or these type stores. All you have to do is send them your audiotape for 55 cents with a cover letter, “I understand that you invented a product. I know you’ve tried to get it into Home Depot. Let me introduce myself to you.” Just a cover letter on this audiotape, “I can definitely help you get your product into Home Depot. Listen to this audiotape.” What it is it’s just a tool that leverages your time. It allows you to generate leads. Now, after someone listens to that audiotape, if they’re sold on what they’ve heard on the audiotape that I’ve edited down and done with you, they’re going to call you. Or you’re going to lead them to a more structured sales letter. Or sales letter will go with the audiotape about who you are and what you can do for them; all the benefits and stuff. And then that sales letter is going to sell them on your information product, which is A to Z, how you did it, your story, everything you need to do to get your product into Home Depot. And you state, “If you’ve got a product that the market wants, I’ll show you how to get into Home Depot.” Or, “If your product isn’t appealing to the market place, there’s nothing I can do about that. But I can show you how I got my product into Home Depot and how I solved all the problems and all the things that you need to do.” And you can sell that course for $600, for $500, for $300. You can test price. But it’s done. I sell information, books all the time for $375. I had a guy out of Australia who wants one information product from me for $500. You can’t put a price on an information product that’s paper and ink. It’s worth what someone is willing to pay. And that’s a beautiful business to be in.

John: This is going back several years, going back actually to 1978, I was in my 20’s and I developed a product. Went, unfortunately, and made a huge mistake, which made up all my inventory to one distributor back in Philadelphia, which at the time seemed like I had found the end of the rainbow. But the rainbow turned out to be a pot of shit. Any how, I learned a lot from that. But what I learned probably more than anything else was the gentleman who had called me from San Diego and he was an older gentleman and he said, “I’ve seen your product and this is my name and I have developed something and I had it taken away from me. And I’d like to talk to you.” And he said, “Could you pick me up at the train station?” And I agreed to. And it turns out that he is a paraplegic.

Michael: How old were you at this time?

John: Twenty-six or 27.

Michael: Remind me. What was the product that you had?

John: It was a product called Key Light. And it was distributed through Ace Hardware, Pep Boys; it was automotive related product or house related product. My life’s dream was to find something that cost a dollar that everybody in the whole world could use. Everybody has keys, lots of them. Key related product. But anyhow, this gentleman had sat in my office, he was the inventor of vice grips. He had invented the tool. He went to Craftsman or Sears. They looked at it and said, “Well, may be we can do something, may be we can’t. It might sell. It might not.” Well, they knew darn well that it would sell. So, they dangled a carrot in front of his face, which was virtually nothing and he went away. They sat on the product for about six months, developed it into a situation where it was highly marketable and it became, obviously, you know what vice grips are. There’s over 270 companies worldwide that are licensed by Craftsman to manufacture those vice grips. They still have the patent on it and renew and renew and renew. So, every time you see vice grips, I don’t care if they’re at Sears for $10 or a discount store for $1.99, it’s all on the same license. This gentleman literally walked away with nothing only because they said they would buy it from him but they didn’t know if they could do anything with it. But they were willing to throw a few bucks his way. But I learned a lot from him.
Michael: That happens all the time. Inventors aren’t necessarily good businessmen or smart marketers or attorneys or anything. So, he told you his story of what happened and then he taught you how to not let that happen?

John: Yes. I learned a lot from him.

Michael: What was his name?

John: I can’t remember. It’s been some time ago, a long time ago. I’m 57, so.

Michael: He mentored you basically.

John: Yes.

Michael: Were you in touch with him for years after that?

John: We stayed in touch for a couple of years. It was a very interesting relationship and we talked several times on the phone. I know his first name is Ed but I don’t recall his last name …it’s like Mathews or something. It was an interesting story. But at that point, at my young age at the time and I had hooked up with a company back in Philadelphia and I can remember flying all the way back home with a smile on my face that you’d have to go to the hospital to get rid of. But at the same time, it turned out to be my worst nightmare because these people had me committing to delivery of millions of pieces knowing that they were never going to pay me for it. And when they got in arrears as far as payments, they’re idea was to fly out here and offer to buy the company.

Michael: Is that what happened?

John: That’s what they did. I refused to sell them the company. I said, “Look, the company is not for sale. The patent is not for sale. I just want to get paid the half million dollars you owe me plus I’ve got a half million dollars worth of merchandise sitting in my warehouse.” Now, bear in mind the company was only five months old. So, here it is with a half a million in receivables and half a million in payables and a half a million dollars in inventory. The whole thing spelled disaster if they didn’t pay me.

Michael: Did you have to file bankruptcy?
John: No.

Michael: What happened?

John: I went off on my own and marketed the product to at least sell off all the inventory I had. I took all the money I that I took back from that and hired an attorney to fight these guys. I sued them. They turned around and sued me. They hired a high-end law firm out of Beverly Hills. I had a Santa Ana attorney. The story got ugly. So, at that point …

Michael: That seems like a big problem. Let’s say you get a great product like your product and you got into Home Depot. How do you finance something like that? How can a little guy with no money finance products?

John: Well, that’s the other thing, too. There’s, obviously, financial things that entered into it. You’re not going to just come up with something with $10 in the bank and think you’re going to pull this off. It’s never going to happen.

Michael: But you can teach people ways around that … how to get financing?

John: There’s all kinds of ways. And if you get to the point where, okay, fine, I got this product, there’s lots of Primeline companies out there that are willing to take the product, give you a handsome job, pay you royalties based on your sales just like I did.

Michael: Everyone’s looking for a new hot product. That’s the bottom line.

John: Right, exactly. But to make a long story short, on this other thing, it took three years for me to get them into court. Any time there was a court date, it continued.

Michael: What a nightmare.

John: It just about broke me, the attorney’s fees almost killed me. By the time we finally go into court, they sent a professional mediator and he grabs me and pushes me in a conference room, pulls out a cashiers check for $100,000 and said, “Take this and run because these guys are going to bury you.” I said, “No, I don’t want the money, we’re going to court.” I should have taken the hundred grand. It was bad.

Michael: That’s a great story.

John: And I’ll tell you who the company was.
Michael: Tell me who.

John: You’ve probably had keys that said Taylor on them. That was the company that did it.
Michael: Called Taylor?

John: Taylor Lock.

Michael: Taylor Lock.

John: They’re out of Philadelphia. They were the largest manufacturer of key blanks and all that business.

Michael: Did you have the product created overseas …it was being manufactured and you brought it in?

John: I manufactured everything from scratch.

Michael: Did you really.

John: Everything. All the dies, molds, injection molds. I brought in a couple of loads from overseas, but we did all the assembly. I had 45 people working for me seven days a week.

Michael: That’s exciting.

John: It was very exciting. The first five months when they were paying me and the money was coming in, it was great. But, like I said, they were a big company, they’re looking at me, here’s some little guy who’s got us by the short hairs of the neck because he’s got the patent on the thing. We can just take it away from him. How do we do that? Just owe him a bunch of money and we won’t pay him.

Michael: You were so hungry for the sales and you were young. You should have said, “Look, I’m a small company. I work on small margins. If you want the product you have to pay me up front.” And, you know what, if they wanted the product, they would pay you up front.

John: Yes, they probably would have.

Michael: Absolutely.

John: They had me locked in. Their name was all over my packaging. They were my sole distributor, which was a huge mistake. And like I learned from a lot of other people that have been in business for years and years, don’t let anybody have more than 20% of your business. You can always afford to loose 20% but you could never afford to loose 100%.
Michael: That’s true. Do you have an understanding of what I may be able to do for you?

John: If we were to move forward, what would be the possible potential as far as sales are concerned?

Michael: Well, I’m not going to do the selling for you. The potential sales through this information product, I think it’s absolutely tremendous. There’s three dreams that most American people have. One is owning a house. One is owning a business. And another is inventing a product and making a million dollars. You’ve got mailing lists out there of thousands of people who have registered and filed patents with the patent department who never … you know the statistics. I don’t know exactly what they are, but so few people who file a patent ever … they’ve got the patent, the tested it, they’ve got their product whether it’s in development or whether it’s just conceptual and they don’t know what to do because they don’t understand marketing. And you could market to that list of names. The market of people who need this service or need this information is incredible.

John: Is this something you do?

Michael: Well, I have a CD-Rom product. My products that I have, my seminars and materials is marketing. My products are perfect for those people, as well. But when you say is it some thing I do, I don’t understand what you mean.

John: You don’t market these tapes, this is up to me to do.

Michael: Yes. I don’t do that.

John: Okay, you’re not involved in that portion.

Michael: No. The services I have are up on my website under consulting services. I can offer consulting to you. The audio interview, which I’ve been doing with you I provide that as a service to nail down your sales message. Your sales message is the most important thing of why people should buy your course. That’s the thing. And once you have that nailed down on audio or in a sales letter form or on a website; the message is all the same. It’s just trying to tell people who you are, build your credibility and give them reason why they should listen to you before they make an attempt in getting their product in Home Depot. That’s what I can do for you.

John: Now, can they purchase this through you, also?

Michael: No, you’re going to develop the product. It’s your product. I just offer consulting as you would offer consulting to somebody.

John: All right. I’m trying to get a feel for …

Michael: It’s your product. You’re going to develop the product. I’m going to help you. It’s just like you developing any other product. You’re just developing a product that’s going to help people get their product into Home Depot based on your experience. That’s it. It’s just exactly what you’ve been doing all these years, but it’s an information product.

John: Right.

Michael: It’s as simple as that. And just like there’s a market for all your Key Lights and your other products. There’s a market for this information product. Now, what’s nice about this information product is there’s no inventory if you don’t want it. It’s paper and ink or it’s audio. It could be delivered digitally. There’s no investment in warehousing. It can be changed at a moments notice. The margins are absolutely astronomical. What does it cost you to put an information product together? You can put an information product together with 12 audiotapes and all your written information for a cost of $7.

John: Right. So, you just help me develop the advertising portion.

Michael: I help you create the audio advertisement, audio brochure. And that’s just one tool that can be used to generate leads. And then I also have copy writing services where I could help you develop … what I do is I take the transcripts, the written transcripts from what we’ve talked about or if we did another one, I take the written transcripts and create that into a sales letter for you. So, that would be a piece you could mail out with the audio. And the sole purpose of that is to get them to buy your course. And I could also help you develop the course if you want to do an audio course. I can help you do that.

John: What experience and background do you have in doing seminars?

Michael: I don’t do seminars. I don’t have any experience in putting on seminars. None.

John: Is that something I might look into?

Michael: Putting on seminars is a way to generate leads for your information product, certainly. All these people like Zig Ziglar and Brian Tracy and all these guys; that’s how they make money. They get people into a room for a low cost or free seminar. And then they sell them products in the back of the room after the seminar. And that’s just one way to do it. If you like handling events like this and setting up seminars—you have to advertise and promote for the seminar. You have to get people there. And then you can put on your own seminar and then sell your course there. That’s one method of doing it. Or you could get on a seminar circuit and be one of the featured speakers of a seminar that’s already put together and you don’t have to screw with all those details. You can get up and tell your story, your one-hour story of how you did it and you can pitch your product. And then the seminar promoter will get a cut of that. If that interests you and you like speaking in front of people and you get a kick out of it, that’s fun for you, you can go that route. No doubt. There are seminar circuits all over the country.

John: There’s a company out of Akron, Ohio that has talked to me a couple of times about doing a circuit type situation. In fact, they’ve got an event coming up and they wanted to know if I would be part of that.

Michael: You want to think real carefully if you want to do that. Do you want to be flying all over the country every …

John: Not particularly.

Michael: Then forget it because you don’t need to do that to get your message out. All that is they’re putting people in a room and it gives you the ability to tell your story. Well, there’s other ways you can tell your story without you having to go anywhere, without having to go on a plane.

John: Right. That’s no appealing to me. I spent too many years doing that.

Michael: Then forget it. You’ve told your story to me. We’ve canned it and cloned it. Would you agree that you’ve pretty given me your story?

John: Pretty much.

Michael: And you’ve given it to me in a compelling way, in an honestly way, genuine. It’s real. It’s not hype. It’s not fake. People just want information. They don’t need a dog and pony show. You’ve given me that information. I’m sold on who you are and your abilities. If I had a product right now that I wanted to go into Home Depot and I was failing at it, I’d hire you on the sport. There’s no doubt because I know through your experience and what you’ve told me and what you’ve accomplished, you can save me money. And I’d pay you $1,000.

John: And I’d save you a lot of mistakes, too.

Michael: You’d save me mistakes, time and money. You’re going to give me the roadmap, the map, the key to doing it because you’ve done it. That’s worth a lot of money.

John: Like I said, I’m approached all the time. I have a gentleman that lives in Silver Lake, California who is retired and moved down here from Oregon. He’s a retired superior court judge. He developed a product; I don’t know why or how he developed this thing. He and I have talked several times. I don’t know what actually inspired it. He got a patent on it. And he’s asking me how do we get this in Home Depot. How do we get it into all these different mass merchandisers? I developed the packaging five different ways. I’ve showed it to a half dozen people. I’ve showed it to Lowe’s. When I did my presentation for my product at Lowe’s and I happened to pull this out of my briefcase and thrown it on his desk, he immediately pushed my product aside and said, “I really like this. This is great. Is this something you’re going to have soon or what?” That’s all I needed to hear from him. I said, “I’ll let you know when it’s going to be available.” I put it back into my briefcase and said, “Okay, fine, now we need to get back to what I came here for.” The potential is there.

Michael: May be you’d be better off instead of selling an information product marketing yourself as an expert and then meeting with people like this. The million dollar question is, “How do I sell the thing?” That’s all they’re asking. He’s saying, “How do I get into Home Depot?” He’s just basically asking you how do I sell my damn product. So, may be it would be worth more if you’ve got the contacts at Lowe’s and Home Depot, which you do, you pick and choose which products you want to take on and you take a piece of the action. You take a percentage of the gross.

John: Well, that’s what I’m doing with this other fellow today.

Michael: That may be more fun to you and more lucrative in the long run; that all comes through positioning yourself as an expert. That will come. And you could sell your course. There’s a lot of people who buy marketing courses who study them for information. Now that they have the information, they know how to do it but they don’t want to do it. They want someone else to do it for them. That’s why people will call me. There’s a lot of people who know how to write a sales letter, but they’ll call me and say will you do it for me. And I will. I don’t do it cheaply. It’s expensive because the time I’m spending on your sales letter is time I could be spending on my own product. Do you see?

John: Right.

Michael: Certainly you can position yourself as an expert. You have to pick your niche. Who are you? You’re the guy, the expert on how to get a product into Home Depot. And that’s what you’re selling. You’re selling your credibility and you have, obviously, a course that you can sell for people who want to study how to do it on their own. And you also will have people coming to you wanting to do it for you and you can do that. But If they want you to do it for them, you’re going to charge them. You want 20% of the gross. And you’re going to pick and choose who you want to deal with if the margins are there for a product like that. You’re not going to talk to a guy who’s going to make 10 cents a unit and ask for 20% of the gross. You have to find the stuff that’s going to make you the most money and that you’re going to enjoy working on.

John: Right.

Michael: And as you get your name in the market place and increase your exposure to your market of people who have developed products and need help getting them into the market, you’ll have more people coming to you and you get to pick and choose which ones you want to deal with. And you may want to choose to work with only five or six a year and just have a nice life style. And tie them up in a nice legal agreement, a solid legal agreement. If you get it in, you make this much. Just set it up however you want it. That may be a nice way to go.

John: Are you familiar with the Thomas Registry?

Michael: Absolutely.

John: Is there potential on that?

Michael: In what way?

John: Just gathering information for people that would be interested in something like that?

Michael: Well, you’ve got a list of manufacturers in the Thomas Registry. I’m sure some of those manufacturers, every manufacturer would love to sell more products. So, I would say yes. But you just don’t want to go to the whole list. You want to figure out which products have the highest margin. You’d be going to a cold list. I think you may be better off finding people who are highly motivated. May be finding more of a target market. There’s all kinds of markets. If we took your sales letter and audiotapes and sent it to a list of manufacturers, yes you would get some response. You never know who you’re going to get. But I think it’s too broad of a list because you’ve got every American manufacturer there.

John: Well, my target, obviously, would be the small business guy who has some little widget that would be a great product.

Michael: I think there are lists available of people who have patented inventions. And there’s lists available of people …you’ve seen the commercial ISC, Invention Submission Corporation with the little caveman and he hits the wheel with the hammer. Do you know what I’m talking about? That’s a company that sells service on how to get your product patented. So, that’s a national patent company. And you can buy their mailing list of people who have paid them money. Not this is a motivate person. Someone who has an invention has an idea, and he wants to do something with it. So, he goes to Invention Submission Corporation and hires them to do a patent search for $595. Then he pays them more money after the patent search to do a patent for them; that’s what they do. And then they pay more money on a monthly fee to do marketing of their patent. But they’ll never get their product sold. It’s a come on. It’s a carrot of those big dollars that they’re going to get their product sold to the millions and millions of people.

But those people have invested money, highly motivate, disillusioned. You can come to those people and be their knight in shining armor and really show them how to get their product into Home Depot. And you could choose related products that they have. If you did a mailing or a lead generating piece, something that would identify people within that mailing list who may have a product. Let’s say you rented 5,000 names from them. And you mailed out a lead generating postcard to 1,000 of them. Let’s say you just did a test because you always want to test. And you sent out a postcard to 1,000 of them that says, “I know you recently got a patent on this product. If you are interested in getting your product into Home Depot or if your product is a product that could be sold in Home Depot or Lowe’s, call for my free audiotape or call me;” a lead generator. That would section off the people whose product may fit your contacts. Do you see? And then they’d call you and you could say, “I’ll tell you what, before I talk to you, let me send you an audiotape,” and this can all be handled automatically where you’re not even in the picture.

John: The audiotape that you’re going to generate.

Michael: Yes, the audiotape that I would generate for you. So, they call an 800 number, a voice mail handles it. The lead is transcribed. The audiotape is sent out or on a small scale you could even do it yourself. And then those people who get the audiotape listen to it and if they’re interested, they’re going to call you back. And then you can spend your time talking to someone who has already stated they’re interested, they’ve already spent money with this company. And it’s perfect. You’re talking to the right people. But you’re only going to want to talk to people who have raised their hand and said yes, this is exactly what I want to do.

John: At that point they could order your course.

Michael: They could order your course. At that point they could do two things. They could hire you as a consultant. You could charge them for that. They could order your course or with your course they would get consultation certificates. Let’s say with your basic course they get 30 minutes of consultation free with you valued at $500 an hour or valued at $250. With the deluxe version, for $599, they get two hours worth of consultation or an hour valued at $1,000. So, you build value into your course. You see? Because you tell them you charge money for your consultation. This guy Jay Abraham, the marketing guru, he charges $10,000 an hour to consult with people. He started at two and then went to three, five, ten.

So, they’d come to you. You could do three things. You could review what they have. If they look like they have a hot product and they’re willing to give a piece of the pie and you wanted to take that product and introduce it to your contacts, you can make money on that. You can make money on consultation fees. You can make money on selling your course. You can make money on everything. That would be fun. But you get to pick and choose through people coming to you who are qualified.

John: Right. But there’s going to be a lot of people a little on the edgy side, too.
Michael: Of course. But you know what, you can weed those people out. You could qualify them in your voice mail when they call up. Let’s say if they get the postcard and they’re interested in getting their product into Home Depot, then when they call the 24-hour voice messaging system, you can say this is who I want to call or this is who I don’t want to call. And you can say if you’ve got some bozo product or can opener or something stupid like that, don’t even call me. You can qualify those people. Don’t worry about hurting their feelings. And that can all be developed in the outgoing recording when they call. So, you want to sift through and really find qualified people because you’re going to be spending time talking to these people. But they’re going to be pre-sold on you already. It’s not like you’re talking to them for the first time selling them on who you are and your credibility because they will have listened to the audiotape. And you’re already selling them. They’ve already met you for an hour on the audiotape. So, by the time they’re calling, they’re drooling, they’re ready. They’re already sold or they wouldn’t be calling. Do you see what I’m saying? That’s leverage. And that’s what marketing is.

John: Right

Michael: When people go to my website, if they take some time and read through the site, it’s all automatic. I’ve got a whole bio on who I am and my story. They’re already pre-sold. When someone calls me, they’re ready to buy products. That’s the bottom line.

John: Interesting. That and there’s a few other things that enter into this, also. The gentleman who was President of Makita for 16 years and the only reason it wasn’t up at the top of the ladder was because he was not Japanese. He is in his 40’s and is retired now for some time. Has a home down in Newport, a 50-foot boat and on and on and on. He and I had become—I had never met him—and he and I had spoke on the phone at least ten times. And these conversations would go on for an hour, two hours. He happens to be a personal friend of the owner of Primeline. And I was asked to call him by the owner.

Within a half an hour he said ‘I’ll tell you what. I’m going to fax you a list of 10 people that I’d like you to send samples to.” This man traveled with a very prestigious crowd of people, President of Quickset (?), President of Bosch, sales managers from all these different companies that normally you would never get to talk to. You can’t even get their names, let alone getting samples to them. Something like that was very interesting to me also because a lot of these people, if these names could be passed on, obviously, could be a help. If you’ve got this product, “OK fine. I know the guy that’s the sales manager of this company … why don’t you send a sample.” So there are a lot of things like that – just like the gentleman had mentioned to me – like I said, in speaking to him, and he is somebody who remains somewhat concealed in Salt Lake City only because people are constantly trying to reach him. The President of Makita, he was responsible for probably bringing Makita into Home Depot and probably responsible for 90% of the sales in the United States. So obviously, these connections are worth millions of dollars. And I know a lot of people like that also, that would be willing to look at samples in a serious way. You can send samples to people, call them back a week later, and say, “What did you think?” They say, “Well, it’s still sitting here in a box on the floor of my office.” That doesn’t do any good. Or, “I gave it to somebody else.” “Who’d you give it to?” “Well, I’ll have him get in touch with you.” And you never hear from them again.

Michael: Well, it all comes down to what do you want to do. And that’s what you’ve got to get clear on. I think as a consultant you, should do fine.

John: So you think this could be a viable …

Michael: Absolutely. I mean, if I asked you do you think your product was viable when you were working on it, you would have said absolutely it’s viable or you wouldn’t have continued. I feel as strongly that an information product with your experience and what you’ve done is viable, as you’ve believe in your product. No doubt.

John: Interesting. The reason I’ve never thought about doing anything like this before until Harvey Brodie keeps telling me to stop talking to people and stop giving this away. But I never thought of myself as a marketable product.

Michael: A lot of people don’t believe that their experience is marketable, but it really is. There’s no doubt. There is a market for everything.

John: Well, obviously it was for Primeline because they insisted I go to work for them even though I demanded a high salary.

Michael: Yes. People want someone who has done it and they just want to know how.

John: They were already in Depot. They knew I came to them with other ideas. I have a line of ideas that came along behind me. Two of them are already starting to come to fruition. It’s a situation where this guy’s already got a company that’s making money. He can run it. At the same time, he’s dragging all these other things in with him. So they recognized that.

Michael: Yes, I mean you shouldn’t give it away for free because you’re a nice guy for doing it, but you’re just undervaluing yourself and your services. You should be charging for this. If you charge for it, people will respect . . . they’ll value your information more than if you’re giving it away for free. They’ll place a higher value on it and they’ll treat it with more respect; they’ll treat you with more respect, and they should pay up. You’ve certainly paid up through your lifelong experience. That’s priceless. Imagine if you didn’t know anything, you could talk to the guy from Makita Drill for an hour, and you had the money, what would you pay to talk to him for an hour?

John: It would be invaluable and very interesting.

Michael: So, why don’t you think about what we’ve talked about, go back to my site, and look at some of the services I have. Or you can come back to me and say, “Mike, I’ve thought about it. Let’s do this. Let’s create an audiotape that will build credibility and have my story on it.” Then if you want to continue, you can put together the written part of your course. You said you’ve outlined six pages to your buddy. You could use that as part of your course. You can take all the questions that someone would want to know – like the questions you rattled off to me at the beginning, and have that as an outline of what these people need to know. We could do an outline. We could do the course on audio; if it takes 4 audiotapes, 5 audiotapes, 6 audiotapes … then you could have the meat in your package and we could all the audiotapes and have them in transcript so you have the beef – you know, a 3 ring binder will all the transcripts, with all the forms, with all the step-by-step things that they need to do. It doesn’t have to be a huge course. People don’t place the value on the size of the course; it’s on the content of the information. Then you just give them the information that will solve their problems. Then you can start marketing yourself as an expert – as a published expert with his own course. Do you see?

John: OK. Well, you’ve given me some food for thought. I’m going to … I have not spoken to Primeline about anything that I’m doing. There is a contract in existence in regards to anything that I do or the endeavors that I choose to undertake. I don’t know if this would fall under that category or not. I’m going to need to read all the fine print there. They pretty much own me, but more from a product standpoint.

Michael: Well, they don’t own your ideas. You can’t create any new products?

John: Well, anything that I do will become part of the Primeline organization. But I think they are referring more to a product type situation, not something to do with my personal life, which is really what this is. It’s kind of a fine edge there.

Michael: You can just say, “I want to do outside consulting,” and they can benefit from it because you’ll be out there looking for new great products that you can bring to them.

John: That’s what I was thinking earlier.

Michael: That falls within the scope of what you’re doing anyway. You’re allowed to market products for them, aren’t you?

John: Yes. I’ve done several things already.

Michael: Good. Well, you’re a good guy to know. I love developing products and stuff myself and if I come across one for Home Depot I’m going to call you.

John: Well, people come to Primeline all the time and I recently was sitting in on a meeting with a gentleman who had a – looked like a plastic 5 gallon paint bucket – and what this was is it had an electric motor in there and had a series of filters. The filters were all – this is for taking out paint fumes, this is a charcoal filter, this would take out sawdust … and what this thing did is somebody’s working in your home … they’re painting . . . or doing something inside your house … you turn this thing on and it moves an incredible amount of air. Very quiet. What it would do is it filtered out all the paint smell, or sucked up all the sawdust … with a bucket, with a plug. You just turned the thing on. He was there pitching this thing to Primeline and after he left, the sample was sitting on the conference room table. I talked to the owner and he told me the whole thing about it. This guy invented this thing. He has no idea how to sell it or what to do with it. It was kind of a neat deal. Only thing was it was way over priced. He wanted to sell it at Home Depot for $250. No one was going to pay $250. If it was $69.95, I could see it. But it’s things like that that people are coming to him and I see these things lined up in his office or in conference rooms all the time where people are coming to them.

Michael: Right.

John: Ninety percent of them … I was one of them … but 90% of them end up in back storage room somewhere.

Michael: Exactly.

John: But it’s interesting how people … it takes a lot of time and effort to go find a Primeline, do all these presentations. It’s very discouraging too. You do 10 of those and walk away. If the phone doesn’t ring pretty soon, you’re putting stuff in storage rooms yourself.

Michael: That’s true. People give up too easy.

John: Yes. I just dropped 20 Grand. Okay, well, it was nice talking with you.

Michael: Nice talking with you.

John: Give me a week or so. I have a lot of things going on right now so . . .

Michael: No problem. I’ll wait to hear from you.

John: Okay, and you will be hearing from me.

Michael: Great.

John: Take care.

Michael: Bye.

For a FREE REPORT on how to get your products in Wal-Mart quickly, easily and without spending any of your own money...click here or go to this link >>>http://www.hardtofindseminars.com/Wal-Mart_Gold.htm

Hi, this is Michael with Michael Senoff’s HardToFindSeminars.com. Did you know I have a full 10 hours of audio interviews with experts on how to get your product into Wal-Mart, Home Depot and America’s largest mass retailers? If you go to my site, HardToFindSeminars.com, and go to the home page, you’ll see some links that talk about Wal-Mart. Go to those links and you can listen to hours of expert advice, advice that you would pay tens of thousands of dollars right on my site here for free. If you have a product or a product line and you’re an importer or you’re living outside of the United States or you’re a manufacturer here in the U.S. and you think you’ve got something that Wal-Mart or any of America’s large mass merchandisers would like, please listen to all the recordings on my site at HardToFindSeminars.com that pertain to Wal-Mart. Enjoy!


[End]