START
Arrie: Let me
tell you. Cold calling the old way can be psychologically
traumatic because you’re being personally rejected. You’re
doing what you’ve been told to do. You’re playing the
numbers game. Every call you’re getting pushback, and you
wonder why this feels so bad. It’s literally inhumane, and
the issue is not the performance of the person who’s
calling, and it’s not your product. The problem is the
approach. The approach is outdated. It’s old school, and it
triggers the wrong impression.
So, what I’m
suggesting is that people can actually make calls in a
comfortable manner as if calling a friend, and without being
rejected.
Michael: I did an
interview with a guy who had some experience with cold
calling, and I have someone who edits all my audio
recordings, and as she was editing it, she had heard of you.
She said, “You may want to check this guy out”, and she sent
me to your website, and that’s how I originally heard about
you.
As I was reading,
I go, “This sounds really good.” And, it’s something that I
think a lot of people who come to my site,
HardtoFindSeminars.com , let’s face it there’s a lot of
people out there pounding the phone. With long distance
service so inexpensive especially even internationally, it
is an extremely effective and great way to sell, but so many
people like you say have been programmed with the sales
gurus, and it’s painful. People don’t like to do it because
of a lot of the reasons you talk about on your site.
So, tell me, how
do you get into all of this? Are you a speaker? Are you a
sales trainer? Who is Arrie?
Arrie: Well,
pretty much my whole career has been behind the scenes. I’ve
been in charge of developing and designing sales training
for very large companies.
Michael: Where
did you all start? Were you in sales in high school?
Arrie: Well, I
did sell in college a bit, but where it started is I
actually have a Master’s Degree in education and training.
It’s actually called “Instruction Design”. It’s a
specialized field that has develop instruction and training
information for people so they can best use and implement it
on the job.
So, after getting
that degree, I got a job in the sales training department of
both UPS and Qualcomm.
Michael Where
were you located then?
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Arrie: In San
Diego and then Atlanta, and I was basically involved with
designing and developing training programs for salespeople
worldwide, and I was in charge of bringing in some of the
gurus to speak. So, I got to sit in all of the sales
training programs around the market.
Michael: Did you
get that job because that was your major in college? Who
hired you first Qualcomm or UPS?
Arrie: UPS.
Michael: So, UPS
Hired you and they brought you into do what?
Arrie: To develop
and design product and sales training for their worldwide
sales force.
Michael: Wow.
Arrie: They had a
small sales training department at the corporate office in
Atlanta, and I was involved with rolling out many of the
services. I actually would literally write and create the
selling materials and training for the sales people.
Michael: That’s a
pretty big responsibility for a company like UPS.
Arrie: It was,
and the funny thing is I was never the trainer. I was the
designer of training. I wrote and I thought through
everything.
Michael: How many
years were you with UPS?
Arrie: About four
years.
Michael: And, did
you like it?
Arrie: I loved
it, great company, very practical, very innovative, good
people. I really loved it. I did really a lot of fun things
there.
Michael: And,
they were probably really kicking butt at that time.
Arrie: Oh yeah. I
rolled out about twelve new products in about two years. I
was in charge of the training wise. So, I was really
involved with heavy sales training and new product
development.
Michael: Could
you see the results of your efforts? Could you see an
increase in sales from some of the training stuff you
developed?
Arrie: Here’s the
interesting thing – not only increase in sales, but people
just thanked us for the appreciation of the program, of the
materials. They were so concise. They were step by step.
They were very customer oriented, and they had the
psychology behind them in terms of how to connect to people.
Michael: Now,
where were you doing your research to put it all together?
Arrie: It was
just based upon our group’s experience. I never really had a
role model myself in terms of any kind of guru, just my
aunts basically. It was just organic I guess I could say.
Michael: And, you
were with them for four years, and then Qualcomm hired you
away?
Arrie: Yeah, I
had to come to San Diego where I grew up, and Qualcomm was
in their hey day at the time. They were just hiring crazily
there, and they were hiring a lot of sales people. So, they
needed some more sales training thinking and development.
So, I got hired there as a senior developer and there I
developed a similar aspects in training and product
development, briefings I would call them. So, I just spent a
lot of time on how sales people best could talk to customers
in a non-aggressive way. That’s where I got a lot of my
thinking from.
Michael: Did you
know Irwin Jacobs personally over there?
Arrie: No, I met
him a couple of times, but I didn’t know him on a personal
basis.
Michael: How many
people were on your team for that department?
Arrie: I think
there were maybe about four or five of us, small group, and
then I got moved into one of the divisions called Omni
Tracks where I was involved in training for their sales
force. So, it was a really good experience.
From there, I
actually left and cut my own teeth in direct selling with a
company called Website Story. They actually offered online
software services to track website user behavior, like the
way people travel to websites and how they buy. So, I was
involved with helping them grow and selling their products.
That job, I was
actually managing 18 salespeople. I sold myself, and that’s
where I really began to form a lot of my ideas.
Michael: When you
were at Qualcomm and UPS was the feedback from the sales
force helpful in you finding out what was really working and
what wasn’t?
Arrie: Oh yeah,
because I would go out in the field with them, and I’d go on
sales calls with them, and we had this hotline right to the
sales force. So, we were very much engaged the front lines.
That’s how we were able to piece it all together from their
perspective.
Michael: So, this
was like a big laboratory that you were involved with for
almost seven or eight years.
Arrie: Yes, it
was.
Michael: And, a
lot of that feedback is a result of what you’ve put together
now in your training?
Arrie: Yes, and
also just a lot of my exposure of being with those big
companies. I got exposed to a lot of training programs that
a lot of these corporations bring in and pay for.
Michael: What was
your thoughts on that? How much would a company pay for when
they brought in training?
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Arrie: I would
say up to hundreds of thousands of dollars for company wide
training for these large corporate type of training events.
So, I was involved with the proposal process, bringing them
in. I would actually get to sit in the back of the room,
which is the greatest thing of all and take notes. When I
was in that room and watching this training program, I
noticed a big hole, a big hole in all these programs and
that was that all these training programs taught people to
mentally focus on closing the sale.
What they did not
teach you to do was how to build trust first, how to execute
that and that was the missing piece that I realized help me
uncover this whole idea.
Michael: Why does
the trust issue have to come before closing the sale? Why
was that a hole?
Arrie: Well,
because if someone does not trust you first and is
comfortable telling you the truth on where they stand,
they’re going to pull you down what I call a chasing game
which is they may show interest. They may say it sounds
great. Yes, we’re interested. But, in reality, they may not
be.
So, what happens
a lot of times the sales people get very excited when they
get a prospect that says they’re interested, they assume
that what they’re heArrieng is absolutely accurate and true,
and then when they call the person back and get their
voicemail, and never get a callback, they wonder what
happened, why they got stuck.
What I found in
my experience is that salespeople in general, people who
sell who’ve exposed the old way of selling, when they
mentality only focus on the outcome, then what happens is
all their words and phrases and all the momentum is driven
by that, and people on the phone pick that up a mile away
and this sets alarms off and they pushback on the sales
person. That’s where the whole conflict begins.
Michael: Okay,
before we get into some of this, all this learning, all this
learning, all your experience with UPS, with Qualcomm and
being able to sit like a fly on the wall and watch these
large dollar sales training programs, after you’ve designed
and engineered your own unique program from learning all of
this. What’s the big promise that a listener maybe who comes
to my site, how are they going to benefit from maybe
listening and using any of your products or ideas or
techniques that they’re not going to find anywhere else?
Arrie: The major
benefit is removing the fear and the mental reluctance of
making the call. That is the biggest issue that everybody in
sales has right now.
Michael: They
can’t stand it. They would rather eat glass.
Arrie: It’s like
a 10,000 pound weight. There’s a mental block, and let me
tell you cold calling the old way can be psychologically
traumatic because you’re being personally rejected. You’re
doing what you’ve been told to do. You’re playing a numbers
game, and every call you’re getting pushback. You wonder why
this feels so bad.
It’s literally
inhumane and the issue is not the performance of the person
who’s calling and it’s not your product. The problem is the
approach. The approach is outdated. It’s old school, and it
triggers the wrong impression.
So, what I’m
suggesting is that people can actually make calls in a
comfortable manner as if calling a friend and without being
rejected.
Michael: But,
I’ve pounded the phone, and isn’t it true that if you’re
tough and you just let it roll off your shoulder and you
pound the phone, you understand that if you do your numbers
maybe one out of twenty may end up being good, and the ones
who reject you, you just blow them off and just move on. Is
that still somewhat valid?
Arrie: It’s
completely valid. It’s your personal choice. You can choose
that manner of being tough and getting beat up and feeling
good about, and squeezing out a couple sales a day.
Absolutely, that’s been happening right now in hundreds of
companies all over the world. The issue is that that’s not
the only way.
There’s a much
more efficient, much more humane way of calling people. It’s
simple a personal choice. Do you want to continue to be beat
up like that, or do you want to make friends and build
relationships and actually make sales the easy way?
Michael: Before
we get into specifics, do you have some case studies or some
stories of maybe some of the people of what they were
experiencing before and after using your system? Can you
talk about some of the success they’ve had?
Arrie: Sure, I’ll
be happy to tell you one story with a gentleman named Bruce
who actually was a teacher. He got laid off from being a
teacher, and he went into insurance sales. He called me in
tears. He was so fearful of making that call, anticipating
the rejection.
Michael: Had he
started yet?
Arrie: No, he
hadn’t started. He just couldn’t pick up the phone because
his only mental experience of selling was the phone calls he
gets at home every night. So, what he did not want to be and
nobody wants to be is that stereotype that everybody hates
so much, that negative selling stereotype.
So, he was afraid
and fearful that if he would start making calls, he would
sound like those people even though he wasn’t like them.
It’s like this role reversal.
Michael: Yeah,
that’s true because I’m just thinking from my perspective
I’ve made thousands of calls, but there are a lot of people
out there who’ve never made a sales call and the only thing
they can relate to are the terrible telemarketers calling
you during dinner time.
Arrie: Therein
lies the core blockage. See, people associate selling with
that negative image. That’s what scares everybody away. What
they don’t know – they’re not aware that the whole different
mindset is a different way of looking and thinking and doing
this that’s pleasant and productive.
Michael: So, he
called you and you worked with him a little bit and he
ordered some of your products.
Arrie: He bought
the program. I worked with him personally, and what we did
was we basically helped him sort of detox from his old way
of thinking and provide him with actual tools and words and
phrases and a new mindset to help him approach the call in a
way where he’s not selling.
Instead he
becomes a problem solver, and that’s the mental shift that’s
taught in the program to sort of shift mentally to that
mode, and then to have a strategy to enter that call in a
way where you’re not pitching your solution. Instead, you’re
actually addressing the issue that you’re solution solves
for the person you’re calling. It’s a different way of
thinking.
Michael: So, how
did that go when you started making calls with his
insurance?
Arrie: I’ll tell
you, he actually was nice enough to leave me an audio
message. It was radically amazing for him. He was able to
make calls and get appointments with such ease, he was in
complete shock. He even told his wife that he looked forward
to making more calls. So, it’s a complete transformation.
The funny thing
is most people don’t believe it’s possible because they’re
so used the negative mental effect of calling and the
rejection, they just do not believe it’s possible. But, if
you change your mental mindset, and you have an approach
that does not create sales alarms to go off in the person’s
mind you’re calling, you’re going to have pleasant
conversations and be extremely effective without being
aggressive.
Michael: Okay,
that’s great. Can you give me another story, any other case
studies of any of your clients that really stick out?
Arrie: What’s
interesting is I’ve got case studies from almost every
industry possible from software to selling furniture to
coaches, and what’s interesting about these case studies is
that what people discover is that it’s not about what
they’re selling. It’s about how they’re selling.
I’ll give you an
example. I had someone just a few weeks ago purchase the
program, and it’s a husband and wife who basically opened
their own record label. He sells music, his own music
actually, and he came from the old school way of selling –
the numbers game, basically being aggressive on the phone,
closing his eyes and hoping it works. He just absolutely
hated the idea of doing this again.
Here he was,
created a project for himself, and he wanted a much more
comfortable way of approaching people. So, he bought the
program, and he likens this to his creative way of making
music in a way where you can actually connect to people in a
natural way without a linear step by step script. He’s
actually having complete success because he’s able to be
himself, speak his own words, and not be scripty and still
make the sale.
Michael: Can we
do a case study? Can I give you a specific situation that I
liked to get your help on?
Arrie: Yes.
For more details
on this cold calling system go
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Michael: For
instance, I sell consulting services, and one method that I
would teach somebody is to buy leads from Information USA,
probably of manufacturing companies within a geographical
area right around San Diego or wherever they’re located, and
the business is doing between a million and five million a
year in gross, and I have the name of the owner.
So, what would
you advise if I’ve got my list in front of me, I’m getting
ready to pound the phone and the goal is to see if I can
identify a prospect who’d like to grow their business, who
is in pain and would like to grow their business through a
new approach in marketing without having to spend more money
on advertising.
Arrie: Well,
there’s a mental process that we have to go through first.
Let me ask you a question. What would you say would be the
major problem that you help probably with your solution?
I’ll ask that first.
Michael: The
major problem would be to help them get growth with
low-cost, inexpensive marketing methods.
Arrie: Growth
means what?
Michael: Let’s
say more money for the business, more sales, more gross
profit.
Arrie: What I
should tell you right now because of the coaching classes,
what I’m trying to do is help you articulate specifically at
a tactical level what he gets for your solution.
So, sales in
general would be a little abstract. What we talk about is
more inbound leads, more phone calls, obviously more
revenue. I’m trying to cover the right wording to really be
much more tactical.
So, what you’re
saying is your marketing solves the problem of him being
able to generate more sales and more revenue, right?
Michael: Yes,
that is correct.
Arrie: Okay, so
that’s the problem that we solve for them. So, traditionally
if I was coaching you and I was an old guru, I’d say to you,
“Look, make a phone call, build some rapport, and give a
pitch about what you do.” Right?
Michael: Right.
Arrie: And, get
their attention and hopefully it will keep going from that
point.
Michael: Right, I
may say, “This is Michael with Michael Senoff Consulting and
the reason I’m calling is I’d like to know if you’d be
interested in growing your business without having to spend
more money on advertising.”
Arrie: Right.
Now, let me ask you a question. If someone calls you on the
phone and says, “Hi, my name is Michael. I’m with XYZ
Company. We do this.” What goes through your mind in a
couple of seconds?
Michael: I know
it’s a salesperson.
Arrie: That’s
right. So, we don’t want to use that approach because the
minute you say, “Hello, my name is”, it’s over. The minute
it’s in the mind, you’re fighting a battle which is very
difficult to win.
So, what we teach
is a different way of thinking. We teach our goal that first
call is to not get the appointment first. The first goal of
that call is to diffuse the pressure from the call, remove
the suspicion, built the trust.
The way you do
that is you begin the call with – and it’s all laid out step
by step in the material – but, you begin the call with, “Hi,
my name is Arrie. I’m with XYZ Company”, and the first thing
you say is, “We haven’t met yet.”
Michael: Okay,
“We haven’t met yet.”
Arrie: Because
what do you think that does to the conversation? What does
it help the person do?
Michael: It helps
them relax.
Arrie: It helps
them relax, and you’re big enough to let them know that you
haven’t met yet. You’re removing some of the suspicion
because they’re probably wondering, “Who is this guy?”
Right?
Michael: Yes, so
you’re answering their question.
Arrie: Yeah,
there’s a lot of psychology here. It’s important to
breakdown for it before you move forward. It’s important to
build that conversation the way that does not trigger the
wall.
Michael: I’m
going to do this no matter who answers, secretary, owner or
whatever.
Arrie: That’s
really your contact, I mean your call-in contact, have the
name of somebody. In respect for them, it’s just normal
conversation that we haven’t met yet.
Michael: What if
I get a gatekeeper?
Arrie: That’s a
separate scenArrieo.
Michael: So, this
is if I’m talking to my contact.
Arrie: Yeah, like
you said, you have a name of someone to call, right? You
would just basically say, “My name is Arrie. I’m with XYZ
Marketing, and we haven’t met yet.” Let conversation sort of
level out a little bit there.
Then we’d say,
“Maybe you can help me out for a minute.” That’s what we say
next, “Maybe you can help me out for a moment.” Typically
they’ll say, “How can I help you?”
Now, the delivery
is very important here. I’m not become aggressive. I’m not
going to be excited. It’s going to be a very relaxed entry
point like this, “My name is Arrie. We haven’t met yet, and
I’m with XYZ Company. I’m hoping you can help me out for a
moment.”
Michael: Okay,
how can I help you?
Arrie: Right,
that’s what happens almost every single time.
Michael: Wow,
that’s great.
Arrie: Because
you’re drawing them into you. You’re not pushing back with,
“Hi! My name is Arrie! Do you have a couple seconds?”
Michael: Yeah,
exactly. That’s good.
Arrie: It’s over.
Michael: You’re
right. That’s true.
Arrie: So, we’re
completely unaware of how we’re being perceived and how
we’re being received by the person. Sixty seconds is broken
down into a four hour program for a reason, because there’s
so many elements that we haven’t thought of that would
actually cause the rejection to happen.
So, anyway, we
move on. He says, “How can I help you?” Then, we move
directly into the problem statement. So, then I’m going to
say, “I’m just giving you a call to see if you’d be open to
some different ideas on how to bring in more sales into your
business.”
Michael: That’s
great.
Arrie: Now, what
have I not done there?
Michael: You
haven’t pushed anything on me. You’re asking his opinion, or
you’re asking if he’s open. You’re trying to identify his
openness.
Arrie: I haven’t
made a pitch. I haven’t told him what I do. I haven’t
pushed. I didn’t even say, “If you’d be interested”, did I?
Michael: Yeah.
Arrie: You never
use sales words like, “would you be interested”. They’re all
overused.
Michael: You got
rid of that. So, you just said, “Would you be open?”
Arrie: Would you
be open to some different – not new ideas. Why not new?
Because every salesperson in the world says new and
improved, right?
Michael: True.
Arrie: Every
single word that I’m using now is chosen for a reason. It’s
designed to detach any wording that might associate you with
a negative stereotypical salesperson image. And, that’s what
we breakdown. The program is a word for word way to approach
people that’s natural and engaging without a pitch. So, I’m
doing the call here identifying the problem not the
solution.
So, anyway, what
typically happens is you get one of two responses. You get,
“What do you mean?” Or you get, “Who’s this?”
Michael: You get
one or the other more than the other.
Arrie: Well, it
depends how – if he delivers in a natural way, they might
say, “Well what do you mean?” And, that gives you permission
to move forward in terms of being more specific about what
you do.
So, in your case
you might say, “Well, what I mean specifically is looking at
a different marketing strategy that’s probably you a lot
less than you pay now, and giving you much more sales.”
Michael: Okay,
tell me more.
Arrie: Okay, so
this is what we’re looking for. What we’re looking for with
this approach is “Tell me more.” “Tell me more” “Tell me
more”, because you’re slowly creating a conversation, not
bombarding them with so much information in the pitch. And,
you’re giving them a chance to breath. That’s the whole
point. This is a two way dialogue, not a one way pitch.
That’s why this is a natural way of calling people.
Let’s just say he
says, “Who’s this?” You simply just sort of say, “I’m sorry.
My name is Arrie. I’m with XYZ Company, and I’m just giving
you a call”, and go right back to the same problem
statement. You don’t give him tips about what you do. You
just go right into, “What we do is we help companies with
different ideas to bring in more revenue and sales to the
company.”
You mentally
stick on their issues, on their problems, because as
premature as to offer a pitch about you until you first have
acknowledgement to the issue they want to solve.
Michael: So,
that’s pretty much the rule. Make sure they acknowledge the
issue that you’re going to solve for them before you get
into you.
Arrie: Exactly.
That is the mindset. The mindset is to focus on them and not
you.
Michael: That’s
important because they don’t care about you. They want their
problem solved. That’s what you’re there about.
Arrie: Exactly,
but traditional thinking suggests the opposite. When we go
to companies and we’re hired, we’re taught to do what? To be
an expert on our product and then start talking about it.
They have been taught to think from their point of view.
That’s the big conflict is that if you’ve been taught the
traditional way, your confidence comes from your product
knowledge not from the ability to generate the conversation
from their point of view, and that’s what we provide is an
expansion of people’s mindsets to help them generate the
conversation in a natural way.
Michael: All
right, and this strategy can be used for any product or
service all across the board.
Arrie: Anything
because what we don’t do here is focus on what you’re
selling. We focus on how you’re doing it, and then we design
a problem statement around it. It’s designed to test your
solution.
So, there’s two
steps. There’s a mindset. Then, there’s the languaging or
the words and the phrases that are targeted towards a
problem you’re supposed to solve.
Michael: Now,
obviously it’s not going to work a hundred percent of the
time, but it’s certainly going to work a lot better than the
old way. Give me the negative side. Where do you hear the
rejection come up and how do you teach people to handle
that?
Arrie: Well, I do
have a whole section on objections, of course. There will be
some resistance with some people. People are just so numb
and so sensitized to these sales calls, no matter what you
say there might be some pushback. There’s no hundred percent
perfect exact method that’s going to work every single time.
It reduces the likelihood of any objection and pushback on
the phone because what was doing wouldn’t trigger that.
So, I do have a
whole methodology around how to diffuse objections that we
can talk about if you like.
Michael: Yes,
let’s talk about it.
Arrie: Okay, so
let’s talk about some common ones that probably everyone can
relate to. Say if someone says to you, “Michael, we already
are using another marketing method.” Would that be a
comment?
Michael:
Absolutely, yes.
Arrie: And, what
would you say? Just in your opinion, how would most people
respond to that typically?
Michael: Most
people would probably just say, “That’s great. Can you tell
me how are they working for you?”
Arrie: That’s
right. Okay, so what we’ve been taught to do is to overcome
the objection, right? That’s what we’ve been taught to do is
sort of cleverly overcome it to get passed it.
Michael: Right,
by asking questions trying to get a hook in to overcome it.
Arrie: That’s
right, but what’s the risk if the other person does not feel
you’re heArrieng what they’re saying as to be true?
Michael: They’re
going to build resistance and they’re going to frustrated
and they’re going to stop listening to you.
Arrie: That’s
right. So, we’re creating more pressure by overcoming what
they’re trying to say. That’s the real problem. That creates
more pressure on the situation.
We teach a whole
different way of looking at objections. What we teach is to
first diffuse the objection, and reopen the conversation
again.
So, in this
example, how we handle this is if someone says to me,
“Arrie, we’re already using another vendor.” What I’d say is
what you always say whenever you get an objection. You
always say, “That’s not a problem.” That’s the first thing
you say is, “That’s not a problem.” That helps the moment
breath for a second. “That’s not a problem.”
Then you say, “I
wasn’t calling to replace who you currently have. I was just
calling to see if you’d be open to some different ideas that
you may not have now.”
Michael: That’s
great because that does answer his real objection.
Arrie: Right,
what I’m basically saying is, “Look, I’m not going to rip
out what you have. That’s not my goal. My goal is to
generate a conversation with you to see if you’d be open to
the different ideas.” That’s how we handle objections.
We have every
single objection written down with a response in a way that
diffuses it so there’s no tension and no pressure. So, you
can reopen up again to really get to the truth of where
everything stands.
Michael: Let’s do
another objection. What’s another real common one?
Arrie: Another
one might be the budget. That’s always a pretty common one.
“We don’t have the budget for it.”
Michael: Yes,
let’s do that one.
Arrie: Okay,
again, if someone responds, “We don’t have the budget.” Of
course, we teach to always, always, always begin responding
with, “That’s not a problem.” That’s kind of funny. There’s
no problems, right?
Michael: Right.
Arrie: Believe it
or not, by just saying, “That’s not a problem”, it sort of
disarms the person. You have a chance to kind of calm the
moment down a bit. So, what you would say is, “That’s not a
problem. A lot of our clients did not have the budget at
first for this. That’s completely common and that’s why we
have come up with a business case to help make a
justification for it. Would you be open to some ideas around
that?”
Michael: There
you go, back to “Would you be open to”.
Arrie: Yeah, so
if I’m offering solutions, I’m not overcoming their
objection. I’m acknowledging their objection to be true
which is so rare because we’re used to going right past it
and overcoming it, trying to beat it, and that’s the
problem. That conflict creates the pressure on the
conversation.
Michael: Let’s do
one more because that’s excellent. What’s another real
common objection?
Arrie: A real
sticky one is “Your price is too high.” Is that common?
Michael: Yep. So,
you say, “That’s not a problem.”
Arrie: Exactly!
That’s the first thing. “Michael, your price is too high.”
So, the first thing you say is, “That’s not a problem.”
Then, what you say is – again, the goal is to validate what
they’re saying to be true from their point of view. So, what
you say is, “You’re absolutely right. You’re absolutely
right that the price can be perceived as high if you haven’t
yet had a chance to use the program, yet. You’re absolutely
right. Would you be open to some different ideas on how to
make the pricing work for you in a way that feels
comfortable for you and meets your need?”
Michael: Yeah,
that’s excellent. So, you’ve got every one of these
objections, you’ve got all this stuff scripted out in your
course.
Arrie: The course
contains every imaginable objection possible. It’s a
methodology route in the mindset and the wording.
Michael: When did
you start putting the course together? When did you get the
idea that, “Okay, I’ve got this training with UPS, with
Qualcomm. I succeeded in doing direct sales through your
software company.”?
Arrie: About four
years now. It’s been four years it’s on the market. There
have been thousands of people using it, and it has a life of
it’s own now. What I’m getting is a lot what I call “sales
refugees” – people from the old school way of thinking who
are just tired of getting beat up on the phone, and they’re
all coming this way because they want go back to what’s most
natural for them to be effective without being aggressive.
Michael: Have you
seen anything else out there like it? Like all the sales
guru, the stuff I grew up on – Brian Tracey and Zig Zigler
and all those guys. Are they still pretty solid on their
opinion?
Arrie: I like
Brian Tracey a lot. I think he has some really good stuff. I
have a lot of his programs. He actually endorses me. I’ve
got to say out of all the gurus out there, he’s got some of
the best stuff because it’s not aggressive, but it’s very
intelligent.
But most people
teach because they say, “Look, don’t be salesy, don’t be
pitchy, think positive, and accept rejection as normal.”
They try and explain how to sell, and what they’re missing
is how to build trust. They don’t have the words and the
phrases and the psychological framework to enter that first
call.
If you look
around the market right now, you’re not going to find too
many people who teach how to break that 60 seconds down into
a method that’s natural and comfortable and does not create
rejection. That’s the missing piece that no one has created
yet, and that’s what makes it so successful.
Michael: I’ve got
some bullets here from your website. Can we go over a couple
of these?
Arrie: Sure,
yeah.
Michael: Okay,
I’ve got “Asking questions doesn’t guarantee the truth.”
What does that mean?
Arrie: Well, a
lot of the old school corporate programs teach when you make
a phone call to someone, the first thing you do is start
asking them questions about their business like, “How long
have you been in business?” “What are your problems?” You
kind of go on a fishing expedition. You try and get the
information from them to see if you’re a good fit with them
or not.
The problem with
that is people don’t have the patience or aren’t willing to
share with you the truth about their situation if they don’t
know who you are and trust you yet.
So, this old
school method of just calling and start asking questions
about their business to identify the problem is outdated and
creates an issue because people in most cases are not going
to tell you their problems unless they trust you first.
So, what we teach
is deal with the call already knowing their core problem.
The way you get that is you think about why people have
already bought your solution and think about three core
issues that your solution solves and use those to call, and
that’s what we have is a methodology to convert your
solution to their problem statements.
So, that
statement about asking questions getting the truth, what I’m
saying is people will not tell you the truth if you’re
asking questions and they don’t trust you yet.
Michael: All
right, “The mindset – people not prospects.”
Arrie: The
concept there is to use a call as a conversation between you
and another human being, and when you just use the other
person just as a prospect, it’s detaches you from the other
person and how they’re receiving you.
So, what I’ve
tried to do here is connect two human beings together in a
much more natural way without there being this buyer and
seller tension, where someone’s trying to sell the other
person something they may or may not need.
So, the idea of
viewing a person as a human being, as a person, what that
does is just helps the person selling to connect with the
person at a much more natural level.
Just the words
themselves actually help that.
Michael: Right,
“Voice mail is the beginning, not the end.” How do you
handle voice mail with so many voice mail systems out there?
What recommendations would you have for that?
Arrie: Well, we
teach a whole methodology around that, and primArriely the
premise of if you get voicemail and you have no other
option, then you’re basically rolling the dice. You have no
other way to get way a hold of the person. Look, leave a
message, but you have no guarantee of getting a call back.
We do have some
ideas around that. One – if you get voicemail, you can hit
zero and go back to the front desk, and there’s a way to
basically in a non-aggressive way identify the whereabouts
of where the person is, and we teach that. I’ll use a couple
of examples.
Michael: Let’s do
it.
Arrie: Normally,
if you’re sort of the traditional salesperson, you call back
and you hit zero and say, “Hi, is Jim around?”
Michael: No, he’s
tied up right now. May I take a message?
Arrie: Exactly,
and then you’re stuck. So, what we do is we teach to call
back and hit zero and say, “Maybe you can help me out for a
method.”
Michael: Okay,
sure.
Arrie: I tried to
get a hold of Jim, but I got his voicemail. Would you happen
to know if he’s at lunch, in a meeting or vacation by any
chance? See, I’m offering solutions right away to help the
other person guide me. What I’m trying to do here is
identify where he might be.
So, in any case,
one of those three questions might be the answer.
Michael: If he’s
on vacation, you know you don’t have to call back. If he’s
at lunch, you can call him back in an hour.
Arrie: Exactly
Michael! What we’re doing is we’re extracting information to
decide whether to move on or not. You see what happens is if
you don’t have this methodology, when you get voicemail,
automatically you say to yourself, “You know what? That’s
it. I’m moving on.”
Michael: You
could leave behind a great potential prospect.
Arrie: Yes,
there’s where the numbers game comes from. It’s because
there’s been no other ideas on how to handle this scenArrieo
to go deeper in the call. People just hang up and call
someone else. They’re like, “Well, it’s a numbers game.” I
go, “No, it’s not.” The reason is because you don’t know a
different way of handling it.
So, we have come
up with a way to extract the information to identify where
the person is. I could tell you there have been many
instances where we’ve called in in our training scenArrieos
with live sales people and the person is at their desk tying
their shoe, and they missed the call.
Michael: Right.
Do you have another technique on that?
Arrie: Well, we
do. Along with leaving the voicemail, we teach people to
basically leave on the voicemail what they would say on the
cold call. So, in your case it would be, “Hi, my name is
Michael. Maybe you can help me out for a moment. I’m just
giving you a call to see if you’d be open to different ideas
related to” – basically plug in your problem statement. You
would not give a pitch about what you do.
So, we basically
pour over what we come up with on the first call in to the
voice mail, and those usually get more calls than the
normal, “Hi my name is John. We offer this program. Give me
a call back.”
Michael: Right.
You say at the end, “If you’re interested, give me a call
when you get a chance” Or “give me a call at any specific
time.” How do you invite them to call you back?
Arrie: We just
say, “If you’re open to some different ideas, give me a
ring.” The whole idea here is to leave a message that is not
pitchy, not salesly. That’s the whole idea here.
Michael: Right.
What’s this “fight or flight reaction” about?
Arrie: Well, that
relates to objections, and overcoming them. What happens is
we’ve been taught when we get resistance to overcome it or
to basically bail out – fight or flight.
What I’m saying
is a third option. A third option is diffuse the moment,
diffuse the pressure on the call, and level it so that it’s
a two way battle and we can reengage again. That’s what we
teach in the program.
Michael: How
about the objection, “Send me more information” where it’s
almost like a blow-off? How do you handle that?
Arrie: Well, I’ll
tell you most people when they get that, they go, “Great”.
Michael: And,
they send it.
Arrie: Then they
call it and they start chasing that person down. They get
their voicemail. They’re not there. Now, there’s a chasing
game which is very painful for everybody.
What would you
say would be three hidden agendas behind “send me
information”?
Michael: Send me
information is to get rid of you without having to reject
you over the phone voice to voice.
Arrie: That’s
one, yeah.
Michael: He may
be interested, but just send it and he’ll have a look at it
when he gets a chance.
Arrie: Exactly.
He may be shopping around.
Michael: Yeah,
that’s possible.
Arrie: But, what
he didn’t say was maybe he really is interested.
Michael: Yeah, he
could be.
Arrie: And,
that’s something we don’t know.
Michael: See my
mental programming that they just wanted to blow you off.
Arrie: That’s
very common, and we expect that to happen. We don’t really
know the truth. So, what we teach is to diffuse it and to
reengage in a way to expose the truth.
So, what we say
is if someone says, “Send me information”, we say, “That’s
not a problem.”
Michael: Yeah.
Arrie: “That’s
not a problem. I’ll be happy to send you what you might
need. Can you help me understand specifically what issues
are you trying to solve so I can customize what to send
you?”
Michael: Oh,
that’s good.
Arrie: Wouldn’t
that make sense? So, we’re not forcing them to talk. We’re
just saying wouldn’t it make sense to first understand what
specifically you’re trying to deal with so I can know what
to send you because logically it makes no sense. I might
miss the mark.
Michael: Yeah,
and if they’re not going to take the time to do it, it’s
probably move on.
Arrie: Yes, it
flushes it out.
For more details
on these cold calling techniques go to
http://www.painfreecoldcalling.com
Michael: That’s
good. All right. “Call me on Friday.” How about that?
Arrie: Oh yeah, a
common blow-off. Sometimes, when you’re making a call to
someone, “Give me a call on Friday”, and then guess what
happens. They’re not there. But, we have created what we
call a calendar relationship. It’s a concept that I’ve
developed that’s very effective that you can use to book
appointments with people in a non-aggressive way.
So, normally, if
you’re on a call with someone, and it’s coming to an end,
what you’d say is, “Well, great how about if we talk on
Friday?” or “Talk next week.” And, they say, “Sure call me
on Friday.” And, you hang up and they’re not there.
So, what we teach
is the concept called a “calendar relationship”, and what
you’d say is, “Would it make sense? Would it make sense for
us to circle back and talk again another time and date than
next week? So, we can really just reconnect again, and
answer any questions you might have. That way we can not
chase each other down, and just be on a calendar. Does that
make sense at all?”
Michael: Okay,
and you get them to agree on that.
Arrie: You get
them to agree that it makes no sense for either you or me to
chase each other down. So, it’s just common sense and a
common respect for both people is all it is.
Michael: That’s
great. How about when interested potential clients
disappear? What’s this about?
Arrie: Oh, yeah,
you probably had the time where you’re working with somebody
who shows a lot of interest, and you go through the sales
process with them. You meet them and you send information
out, and it’s all looking good. Then, all of a sudden they
disappear on you. They just don’t call you back.
How do you
suppose most people handle that who have been schooled the
old way? What do they typically do when they don’t get a
call back?
Michael: They
call back and say, “Hey, I haven’t heard from you.”
Arrie: That’s
right.
Michael: “What’s
the deal? You disappeared on me.”
Arrie: They keep
chasing and they keep chasing, and that creates more what?
Michael: More
stress and tension.
Arrie: More
pressure. Do you see how we’ve been trained to pursue and
not get to the truth?
Michael: Yes,
absolutely we’ve been programmed.
Arrie: It’s just
amazing how we hit our heads against the wall. I call that
the chasing game, and if anyone listening to this call is
chasing, I would just absolutely stop right away because
there’s a different way of doing this that’s much more sane.
Michael: So, what
do you do? Do you call the guy back?
Arrie: Well, you
certainly call the person back, but you don’t call to say,
“Hey, I’m calling to follow up.” You never used the word
“follow up”. That’s another word we need to subtract from
our language all together.
So, what you do
is first of all, you have to understand, we want to get to
the truth where the situation stands. So, what you do is you
call back and you say, “Hi Jim. I’m not giving you a call to
move the sales process forward.” That’s the first thing you
say. So, imagine what the person is feeling or thinking
about at that moment especially if you keep pushing, right?
But, instead
you’re just using the pressure here. You’re taking the
pressure off the scenArrieo. You say, “Look, I’m not calling
to push this forward. I’m just calling to get some feedback.
I haven’t heard back from you for a couple of weeks. So, I
assume maybe you decided not to move forward which is fine.
Not a problem with me. I was just calling to get some
feedback to find out where I can improve.”
You’re basically
saying, “Look, I know it’s probably over. You are saying
it’s over, and I’m okay with that. I’m not going to pressure
you for yes or no. All I’m looking for is the truth of where
things stand.”
Why do you think
prospects or people are afraid to tell the truth to sales
people?
Michael: They
don’t want to hurt their feelings.
These cold calling techniques are great.
Arrie: Perfect.
They don’t want to hurt their feelings, and they don’t want
the person to be more aggressive with them to try to turn
things around. There’s a fear of telling the truth with
someone who sells.
So, what we do is
we teach you to diffuse that suspicion to allow the other
person to tell you the truth without him getting negative
repercussions from you.
Michael: Now,
with email, it sounds like these word scripts, these answers
to objections can also come in the form of emails and direct
mail. Are these effective through a letter and email as
well?
Arrie: Very much
so. We teach a whole module on what I call the written word
which is email communication because I can’t tell you how
many times people use email in the sales process and kill
the deal just based upon their approach.
You’re absolutely
right. We have the templates you can use and these words
we’re talking about you can use as well in that email that
does not come across as a sales pitch, and yes, this is all
transferred across the email as well.
Michael: Sounds
like you have some NeuroLinguistic Program designed into
this, maybe unintentionally or intentionally.
Arrie: Well,
definitely not intentionally because yeah it can be labeled
that way, but I think the whole idea is we’re not trying to
match or mirror anybody or try and persuade them or coerce
them. What we’re trying to do is remove the tension that
exists in the selling and buying relationship to allow the
relationship to evolve naturally.
Michael: Let’s go
over the actual product that you offer, the training itself.
Can you describe what’s available if someone was interested
to get the whole gamut of the training that you offer? How
does it come? Is it on CD? Is it video? Give me details on
what you have.
Arrie: What we’ve
learned is that in order to change your mindset and shift
over to this concept you have to have three modes of
learning. One is the video, the visual. So, we have an
online video. We ask you to watch this live training where
I’m teaching how to do this way with a live, skeptical
audience.
Michael: How long
is that?
Arrie: Well, it’s
about 45 minutes. Then, there’s the audio material which is
the sequential, step by step concepts and wording to use
that’s available which is about four hours or so of audio
which comes online and on CD. Then, of course, there’s the
written material which is also very important. That ebook
form you print out, it’s all included in that master
program.
We also have a
coaching staff that works with you as part of the master
program to work with you to really hone this to make sure
this really sticks as a permanent way of being because I
can’t tell you how many people who try to make this shift on
their own without support end up going back to the old way
because they’re so used to it.
Michael: Okay, so
tell me about that support. You’ve got this master program,
45 minutes of video. You’ve got the ebook with all the word
scripts and word packages transcribed out, and the four
hours of audio on CD or you can listen online as well.
Arrie: Correct,
and then along with that, you have access to call any of our
coaching staff with questions you might have because people
are going to need some help to develop the problem
statements and the wording to use.
We actually
already have wording by industry over the four years we’ve
collected in our database. We have languaging to use for
real estate, for insurance, for software, for marketing, for
consulting, for coaches. We’re going to provide that to the
folks who come on board.
Michael: Do you
sell that in any of your packaging?
Arrie: It comes
with the program.
Michael: So, all
your word language for all the industries comes with the
program?
Arrie: Yeah, in
the program are some examples, and then we have more in our
database. We keep adding more all the time. So, basically,
you have full access to all of it.
Michael: I see.
So, let’s say I’m in real estate, and I want all the
objection handling related to my industry. How do I access
that information online?
Arrie: Through
your personal coach. We have different forms. We have
documents. We have audio. Usually what happens in reality is
people call and say, “I’ve got these two situations that I’m
stuck on.” Because mostly they can be on their own. “I’m
stuck here. How do I respond to this?” Or if I’m in real
estate, I’m called For Sale By Owners at their home, “What
should I say after this point?”
So, we had it all
mapped out already.
Michael: How much
coaching time to do I get?
Arrie: We may end
up changing, but at the moment, they have access on a 90 day
basis to the coaching staff, and at the moment, we haven’t
restricted it because we trust people to use it in good
faith. So, we haven’t had anybody take advantage of this
yet. We leave it pretty much open. So, you can really call
your coach as much as you need to to get this down.
Michael: For 90
days?
Arrie: That’s
usually all they would need.
Michael: Okay,
that’s pretty good. And, you’ve got two different programs.
You’ve got the Mastery, and what’s the other one?
Arrie: And, the
basic, and the basic is the materials on their own with no
help at all from a human being.
Michael: Now,
after 90 days, if I want additional coaching, what’s that
going to cost me?
Arrie: It just
depends. We’re happy to take a five, ten minute call. We’re
not really strict about that. If you need an hour or so, we
can bill it out. We have to adjust our rates based upon the
situation, but it’s all customizeable. It’s all reasonable.
Michael: All
right, very good. Let’s go to some frequently asked
questions. How would you say this program is different from
all the other selling programs? I know we talked about it,
but let’s just recap.
Arrie: Well, it’s
different because the mental focus is on diffusing the
pressure and building trust with the person on the phone,
and to break that 60 seconds down into a way that’s stress
free and to be able to make the call and to build the
conversation to really determine the truth whether there’s a
fit there or not on the phone.
So, the way we’re
different is that we don’t just tell you, “Think positive.
Make the call, and get over your fear.” We show you exactly
how to deliver it in a way that’s not scripted, but is
natural and relaxed.
Michael: How do I
know that it doesn’t contain a lot of these same old
messages that I’ve heard from the sales gurus that you hear
so much about?
Arrie: Because
it’s the complete opposite of that. It’s the counter to the
traditional way of thinking because we don’t teach, “Go make
the sale.” We teach, “Go get the truth of whether there’s a
fit there or not.”
So, by removing
the assumption from your mind, you’re making a call to
someone in a humble manner. You’re not assuming that what
you have is for them.
See, the problem
is the old way of thinking is you find a target market. You
find someone to call, and you say to yourself, “Man, I’m
going to get the appointment. I know I’m going to get it.”
And, what happens is you’re mentally focused on that end
goal, and the person feels that from you and they shut you
down.
So, we release
you from the end goal to allow you to have a natural
engaging conversation to really let it evolve in a natural
way to determine together if you’re a fit or not.
Michael: Now, can
I get immediate results once I have a good idea how this
system works?
Arrie:
Absolutely. This is not something you have to memorize to
do. This is something you can literally go online, order the
program. Within four or five hours of studying the
materials, you’ll make your own mental shift, and you’ll
make a change. It will just be obvious to you. You’ll just
realize things like the word “follow up” is a deadly word to
use. You’ll stop using it right away. You’ll stop using the
words, “Would you be interested?” I mean, these are
immediate changes to use right away and you can get results
right away.
Michael: Okay.
How is this program different from prospecting programs that
tell you to learn marketing from scratch and never cold
call?
Arrie: Marketing
is absolutely a legitimate thing to do. I do that. So, I’m
not saying not to market. I’m just saying what most programs
say is cold calling is dead. I agree. To cold call the old
way absolutely is dead. You get rejected. It’s a hard way to
go, but if you cold call the humane way, it’s a whole
different world, and a much more relaxed manner.
So, I’m just
saying a lot of people do not acknowledge this different way
of doing it, and like you said earlier in this call, it’s
almost free to make a phone call.
Michael:
Absolutely. With this way and the power of talking to a
person – a lot of these marketing programs out there with
postcards and direct mail and all this other stuff in a lot
of ways is all there because people want to avoid the pain
of cold calling. Where if you just pick up the phone and
call, you could be talking to your prospect right there
instead of sending out lead generation pieces to have them
call you. Do you see what I’m saying?
Arrie: Exactly.
Michael: Does
this deal with the gatekeepers?
Arrie: Oh, very
much so, yeah. There’s a whole methodology around
gatekeepers. Any resistance that you get in the selling
process is handled in the program.
Michael: This is
very, very good. I think my listeners will be interested in
this. You’re doing some great stuff. Arrie, thank you very
much.
For more details
on this cold calling system go
www.PainFreeColdCalls.com or call Michael at 858-274-7851

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