“I never saw my kids” . .

“I never saw my kids”   .   .

Here’s one of the best examples of how to get clients as a
consultant.

You’re already giving marketing advice away but you’re just not
getting paid for it.

Jeff sells laser removal services to folks who want to get rid of
their tattoos.

And how he does this is exactly the same system you can use get
paying client too.

“I worked like a slave from 9:00 to 9:00 every single day.

I was never home.

My off day was Sunday I would go to church, come home, cut the
grass and fall asleep.

I never saw my kids.

You know they were young girls, you know, grade school girls and if
I was home for supper they would applaud.

I got to this point in my life where working that kind of time and
everything I had to make a big decision in life.

And I just decided that I had had it.

I had eight years in, I understood marketing and I understood how to do
it.

Because I had made every mistake you could ever make.

And I decided I was going to open up my own consulting business.”

Here’s the link to the audio download and the transcripts are typed
out here below.

Scroll down to part two because that’s where it gets really good.

Go to

http://www.hardtofindseminars.com/Laser_Man.htm

Part Two: How To Capitalize On The “Impulse Buy” Without Ever
Asking For It

Jeff hated asking prospects if they wanted to get started on their
expensive laser treatments right away. Although he knew he needed
to ask that question in order to capitalize on the “impulse buy,”
he just couldn’t get himself to do it. Fortunately, he stumbled on
a way around his fears. He found that if prospects thought they
were “locking in” a price, they wanted to jump on the treatments
right away, without Jeff ever needing to ask them a thing. In fact,
Jeff says he closes 75% of his prospects on the same day as their
free consultations. And in Part Two, you’ll hear all about it.

You’ll Also Hear…

- How he landed his first consulting clients
- Why Jeff never charges for a consultation and believes you
shouldn’t either
- How he qualifies prospects over the phone quickly and effectively
- Why Jeff believes clients should always pay as they go
- The deal Jeff made with doctors that allowed them to test-drive
his product – while paying him half of their earnings while they
did it!
- How he convinces doctors that they need a marketing coordinator
if they want to have any kind of a successful laser center

Because Jeff studied the fundamentals of marketing, he knows he’s
not really selling lasers or laser treatments; he’s selling
opportunities. That’s why his marketing techniques have helped to
grow medical centers all over. And in this audio, you’ll hear
exactly how he applied those fundamentals in the medical field, and
how you can possibly do it too.
Michael: Okay, you’re operating your own Laser Institute of New
England successfully, you found a formula that worked advertising
on a rock radio station in that more blue collar Boston Herald
newspaper you’re rocking and rolling with that very well.

Jeff: And again attributed totally to the ability to market, my
ability to understand marketing, understand the principles that
were taught to me and apply them.  So every year we were growing.
In 1996 we did a $1 million dollars worth of business and that is
significant because that’s before hair removal.  Like I say, hair
removal expanded the business prior to that we did a $1 million
dollars worth of business.

Michael: Oh so you got into the hair removal too.

Jeff: Of course we were the premiere laser center, anything that
came out we had.  We had every laser available, we were specialist.
The average person had the laser they’d have it in their office as
part of their medical practice.  We were a working laser center.
Now, I think I told you we were approached by people who opened up
additional laser centers and investors were coming in dangling big
dollars in front of us and they said “Okay, you’re going to have to
open up another one to prove the concept to us.”  So I went down to
the state south of us, which is Rhode Island where I’m born and I
know the area very well, and I opened up another laser center in
Rhode Island.  So this is my third that I’ve now opened, this was
again from scratch actually to the build out I did everything, and
I was working three days a week in Rhode Island and I was working
three days a week in Boston.

I used to tell people I worked half days, I worked 9:00 to 9:00
every single day.  I was never home.  My off day was Sunday I would
go to church, come home, cut the grass and fall asleep.  I never
saw my kids.  You know they were young girls, you know, grade
school girls and if I was home for supper they would applaud.  I
got to this point in my life where working that kind of time and
everything I had to make a big decision in life.  And I wasn’t
really happy about these investment people that were coming in and
what they were making us do.  And all of a sudden I saw from my
partner we had attorneys and we had accountants and they were
sucking all of our money out putting together this business plan of
rolling out all these laser centers and I just decided that I had
had it.  I had eight years in, I understood marketing I understood
how to do it.  Because I had made every mistake you could ever make
I decided I was going to open up my own consulting business.  This
is in 1998 because now hair removal lasers came out and the
industry exploded.  There were all these people buying lasers and I
knew they were going to be in the same place I was back in 1990.

Michael: Slandering.

Jeff: Yeah, they were going to buy a very expensive piece of
equipment and think they were going to be successful.  They didn’t
know anything about marketing which meant they were going to make
all the mistakes I already made.  So I said I could open up a
consulting business and help people by showing them or helping them
not to make those mistakes and teaching them marketing the Jay
Abraham way.  And that’s what I did I opened up my consulting
company.

Michael: What did you call it?

Jeff: Laser Business Development Company.

Michael: Okay, so you got out of the mess with…

Jeff: The day-to-day running an operations of laser centers and I
opened up a one man consulting company and started working out of
my house and now all of a sudden my daughter saw me every day.

Michael: How old were they then?

Jeff: In 1998 11 and16.

Michael: Wow that must have been a big change huh?

Jeff: It was a huge change but I was home – well, I actually ended
up being pulling all over the place, but I was home and I
controlled everything myself.

Michael: Yeah, but do you think missing your daughters was one of
the big things?

Jeff: It was the thing.

Michael: Were you like what the hell am I doing?

Jeff: That’s right.  You know the stories and it’s true, they’re
only going to be 10 and 11 once, it’s not going to happen again and
I knew what I was doing.  I’ve had two other partners, I own 40% of
the business, but I was doing all the work.  The two doctors that I
was partners with they had their medical practices, they were
working in their medical practices during the day.  So I had to
make a huge decision in life and it really came from the fact that
I was never seeing my family.  So I decided to take a chance at
what I had learned over the those eight years and turn it into a
business.  Seeing that this was going to be a service that many
people really would need because I knew what was going to happen to
them was going to be the same thing that happened to me.  So that’s
what I did.

Michael: Alright, so how did you start your practice?  You had this
knowledge, you were already an expert.  How many laser centers were
there in the United States at that time with hair removal?

Jeff: Now companies were selling hundreds of lasers, you know.

Michael: Thousands all over the place.

Jeff: Yeah.

Michael: How did you get your first client?  Is this when you went
to Candela to produce the marketing plant?

Jeff: Actually, the first year that I started my business I wasn’t
sure how I was going to get my clients so I went to another laser
company that I knew very well and I own some of their products and
they had a CEO there that was open to idea, and I went to him and I
said your salespeople are going out trying to sell lasers to people
and it’s a big decision that people have to make and people are
afraid of making a financial mistake.  So there’s a lot of people
that won’t buy, they put off the buying decision.  The sales cycle
is a long one.  a salesman doesn’t walk in and sell $100,000,
$125,000 pieces of equipment on a sales call it takes a long time
to bring them along and everything.  So what I said to him is what
I think you should is go to your salesman, the local sales guy, and
find out people that he’s called on that aren’t buyers yet and
let’s show me instead of tell me.  What I said to him is “What I
will do is you give me your laser, give me one of your lasers, I
will take it out to these customers and I’ll let them use it for
the day and what I’ll help them do is market.  I’ll teach them how
to do consults, because the consults is the key to the business is
what I found, virtually everything that I learned about marketing I
learned from doing all the consults in eight years.  I did 10,000
consults for laser services.

Michael: Let’s take five minutes and talk about the consults.  So
that’s when someone calls.  Alright, so what’s important about a
consult?

Jeff: Okay, nothing happens until you do the consults.  So when you
do a marketing or advertising piece the purpose of the advertising
piece is to get the reader or the listener to pick up the telephone
call and schedule their consultation appointment, but you don’t
treat a person until you do a consult with them.

Michael: Right, so they’ve got to come in.  Is the consult free?

Jeff: Always as far as I’m concerned.

Michael: Always free consult, come on in, let’s see…

Jeff: For me it is but for some of my customers they charge for it.
It’s a huge mistake.

Michael: I would agree.

Jeff: I always did free consult because to me a consult is
educational.  All I’m doing is educating a person about what is a
laser, how does it work, what does it do, what doesn’t it do, what
are the risks, what are the benefits, how many treatments you’re
going to need, why, what kind of equipment do we use, whose going
to be doing it?  Everything you’d want to know.  I did a half hour
consult with every single person.

Michael: And you had a system you just did them over and over again
the same one.

Jeff: Over and over and over it was a script in my mind and you
have to be a certain kind of person to do that.  It was funny
because people use to laugh at me all the time like why do you take
so long?  You know what my conversion ratio was, 92% of people that
came in went with us.  People don’t believe that and I’ll qualify
it by saying this Number 1 we qualified them on the telephone for
appropriate service and we qualified them financially.  I cannot do
a half hour consult with a person at the person at the end they go
what isn’t $50 dollars.

Michael: On that phone call how would you qualify?  What would you
ask them?

Jeff: I trained my people that answered the phones and they were
very good, all they had to do – the question that all people ask
when they call up they would always say does it hurt and how much
does it cost?  So I have to make sure that my telephone people can
answer only those two questions.  Does it hurt?  What I would tell
them is what I like to do is compare one pain to another pain.  So
for instance, if you were doing a consult for hair removal you
could be sure that the person is already plucked, they’ve already
waxed, they’ve already done a number of things to they get to the
point of laser.  So what they would answer would be the question is
it doesn’t hurt as much as plucking and waxing does.

Michael: Perfect, yeah.

Jeff: So that would answer the pain.  When they had asked what does
it cost, what I did is the average person coming in was probably
going to be treated for a small area, usually for hair removal say
the face.  So what I would say to them is the average cost for
laser hair removal is around $200 dollars.  When you come for your
consult you can show us the area you want treated we’ll give you
your price, it’ll be in writing with a guarantee and that’s how we
would answer it.  Which meant that we financially qualified them
that they would know that coming it was going to be at least $200
dollars.

Michael: And that was for one appointment.

Jeff: One appointment.

Michael: With the hair removal is that multiple appointments?

Jeff: Multiple treatments.

Michael: That is.  You let them know on the phone, because I’m sure
a lot of people don’t know.

Jeff: Yes, we would.

Michael: You say to be multiple appointments.

Jeff: It will be multiple appointments, not it could be it will be.
It’s impossible to treat hair in one treatment because you’re hair
that’s in a growth phase and all of your hair is never in a growth
phase at the same time there’s only a percentage that are in a
growth phase.  This is the whole educational part.  So the purpose
of my marketing piece and advertising piece is to get a person to
schedule the free consultation.  When they come in then now it’s
the educational part you get to tell your story.

Michael: Did you script it out like did you plan that out yourself
or is that…?

Jeff: Totally.

Michael: You did.  You went over everything that you need to cover
to answer concern.

Jeff: Created what’s called consultation checklist and I went
through every subject that a person would cover on a good
consultation and I use to teach the staff how to do consult.  Like
I said I did 10,000 of them and everything that I really learned
about marketing I learned in the consult one because what I would
do is I’d listen to the language that a person would use.  I would
listen to their fears.  I would listen to everything they said to
me which would give me all the words I would now need to use to put
my marketing pieces together.

Michael: Do you have this scripted out for your training?

Jeff: I have a checklist of each subject that you would go over.
If I were to do a consult today I would do the exact same consult I
did 10 years ago.

Michael: So as long as they were qualified you answered the pain
and the cost and they were qualified they were in, you’d close 92%
of them.

Jeff: That’s right, 92% of them.  That was my conversion ratio
until all of a sudden I started doing laser hair removal.

Michael: But before we go there, would you do treatments on the
consultation day?

Jeff: Absolutely.

Michael: You want to get them going now.

Jeff: Absolutely.  Now that’s a great question and it’s another big
area that a lot of people fall down on where they wouldn’t.  Now we
would always do treatments from the day of the consult other than
one service that we did which was called Skin Resurfacing where we
use the CO2 laser, which basically back in that day was controlled
blow torch it just burn the skin right off your face.  There’s no
way you could do that service on the day of the consult.  It needed
a lot of prep.  It was a serious, serious, procedure, very
different from the vast majority of things we did.  So that one no,
everything else we always offered the treatment on the day the
person came in always, very, very important to do that because it’s
an impulse buy Number 1.  Number 2 a person came along way to come
in do a half hour consult, once they heard everything that they
wanted to hear they wanted to get going.  So I would always make
sure that the ability was to get going.  Now my biggest problem was
I couldn’t close.  I could not close I had a very hard time asking
a person do you want to do this today.  That’s a very tricky
subject and it’s a very hard thing to do.  And I had to come up
with a method of doing that, of saying do you want to get started
today without selling something to somebody.

Michael: So what worked for you the best?

Jeff: Well every person that came in I gave them the consultation
form that I filled out for every single person, and on that form
was basically their name, what they came in for the average number
of treatments that were going to take what we expected what the
cost per treatment was, everything that they’d want to know was on
that form.  We would give the patient that form to take home with
them so that it was very clear to them what the cost and number of
treatments were.  And we would also photocopy and keep it in their
medical records so that the front desk had a copy and everybody was
on the same page.  I do not want people coming in and saying “Oh I
though the $200 dollars was for all the visits.”  No.  So I used
that form.  Now, I come up with a sentence on the bottom of that
form that changed my entire life.

Michael: Tell me.

Jeff: I would have people sign this form.  I would sign it and they
would sign it.  Now when I would ask them to sign it I would notice
that people would kind of tense up and I would say to them “No,
this form is just a form that just outlines what you and I spoke
about today.  And as a matter of fact, what it does is it obligates
us to offer the price that we gave to you today for the next 30
days or 60 days whatever I was using at the time.  It could be like
60 days.  So I would say to them if we were to change our pricing
in the future you have this, we’re going to give it to you at the
price that we offer as of today.  So at the bottom of the form it
basically would say that the price is guaranteed from any price
increase for the next 60 days.  So what I would say to them is, and
this changed my entire life this one phrase, I would say to them
you could be treated anywhere from today to the next 60 days and
you don’t ever have to worry about a price increase.  That’s all I
did and at least 75% if not more.

Michael: So you said let’s do it today.

Jeff: People said I could be treated today and I would say well,
I’m sure we could probably fit you in let me go, you know, the
doctor…

Michael: Yeah.

Jeff: We’re treating other people, you will have to now fill out
actual paperwork and consents and everything so it’s going to take
a little bit of time but let’s make sure that we can get you in
today.  And in most cases we could but just by saying that one
sentence you could be treated anywhere from today through the next
60 days.

Michael: And then they ask.

Jeff: They would say to me I couldn’t be treated today because I
couldn’t bring myself to say to a person do you want to be treated
today?

For more interviews like this go to HardToFindSeminars.com.

Michael: Did that sentence, did that happen by accident or did
you…?

Jeff: By accident.

Michael: And then you just stuck with it.

Jeff: And then as soon as I saw the reaction – this is why it was
so important for me as the Director of the Center and the Director
of Marketing and Business Development to be doing the consults. I
would never have learned any of these things if I wasn’t with the
people speaking with them and seeing how they reacted.

Michael: Well look you’ve been in a laboratory 10,000 consults come
on.

Jeff: Yeah, and that’s what I learned I learned everything from
listening to people and seeing how they reacted.  And I knew that
the vast majority of people once they were comfortable with us then
they should be comfortable with us because we have the best
technology available we have all of it.  And I have very good
doctors I mean board certified dermatologist, highly trained
people, so we were not on a strip mall we were The Laser Institute
of New England and the Laser Center of Boston.  So we knew what we
were doing and that was my job, my job was to educate people that
yes we have the technology, we have the expertise, we have the
people, we have reasonable pricing and we offer convenient times
for you.

Michael: Alright, let me ask you this and we’re going to get back
on track with our story but this was critical.  Okay, so they
filled the paperwork out and when they make a commitment are they
admitting to all the appointments and how does the money work?

Jeff: What we offered is I go back to Jay Abraham 101, make it easy
to do business with me and people will, that’s my Rule Number 1
that I teach and people think that sounds so simple.  And I break
the business down to every possible aspect of your business and say
“Am I making it easy for people to do business with me?”  So I
didn’t offer just one way I like charging per treatment, you pay as
you go even though it’s going to take let’s say eight visits to
remove your tattoo.  Now, when I go out there and o my consulting
with people I have found many, many people they charge package
pricing where they put together, okay you’re going to need eight
treatments so we’ll sell you a package of eight and basically if
you give them the payment for the eight then you get a discount and
that’s how people do the business.  I don’t like that business
model at all I really don’t.  And I’ll always ask people well why
are you doing that and, you know, usually there answer is because I
get a lot of money upfront.  I don’t like that answer.  And coming
from the finance background I don’t like getting money for a
service we haven’t provided yet, not unless you have a very strong
refund policy in place, in writing, that you give the patient.

Also I believe it breaks Rule Number 1, I’m not making it easy to
do business with people because my target, my average person that
I’m dealing with is the average everyday working person.  It’s a
huge difference to make a decision between paying $1600 dollars and
$200 dollars.  I don’t like giving a person a large number I like
giving them a much smaller number.  I like offering the service a
pay as you go.

Michael: People respect it, they’re in control and you get more
clients.

Jeff: Of course.  So to answer your question I can’t know for sure
that every person is going to follow through with the entire
treatment plan because things happen in life to people.

Michael: What percentage never went through at all?

Jeff: It would go back to what service we were providing.

Michael: Let’s say the tattoo removal, what did you find?  Were you
surprised?

Jeff: No, I wasn’t surprised.  I think like I said earlier women
would tend to go through with the entire process.  Women were more
motivated they were doing it for a different reason than men.  A
lot of guys would turn into no shows every now and then because
something came up and so it was no big deal they’ll just come next
week or, you know, two weeks down the road.  But they would come in
because once you get started and all of a sudden you got half your
tattoo there it’s a little strange, so most people would follow
through with it.  I’d say it was about 15% of the people that would
drop out and who knows for what reason, maybe they would just cover
it up with something else, I don’t know.  But every patient type
depending on the service we’re providing had a different rate of
attrition.

Michael: Okay.  Alright, let’s go back.  You’re now consulting on
your own.

Jeff: Yes.  The first thing that I did when I started because now I
have to get customers and things was to approach the Laser Company
and say to the CEO that, you know, there’s a lot of customers out
there that are not buyers yet.  If I were to take your laser into
them for a day and let them use it and let them get comfortable
with it, let them see that the laser really does work and it really
does what you say it does and they could start treating patients
and I will charge them for the day.  The way that I set it up was
we support the money, whatever comes in I get half you keep half.
And then I would pay the laser company a usage fee for their laser
but what I would help them do is I would help teach the doctor how
to do consults, how to market, all the different things that I
already know how to do I would teach them how to build their
business up.  So now there’s zero risk to the doctor.  He’s not
making laser payments, he has a laser come in, he brings his people
in, he gets to use the product and find out that it works; he gets
to build the business up.

Now, what ends up happening is as soon as he starts paying me too
much money he becomes a buyer.  If we get a $6000 dollar day and he
has to pay me $3000 grand and his monthly leasing fee is $1000
dollars or $1100 dollars what does he need me for?  So what I’m
doing is constantly putting myself out of work.  I’m building a
person up to become a buyer and this person was on the fence.  So
that’s what I’m saying to the sales guy.  Who are these people?
They’re not going to buy from you, they’re not convinced yet this
is a business.

Michael: Alright, so what does he say?

Jeff: So we did it.

Michael: Alright, so he turned over lots and lots of people.

Jeff: No, he gave me…

Michael: Oh he gave you the laser.

Jeff: …his lasers to bring out and the sales guy would give me the
names of the people, they build a relationship, okay this guy is
going to come out and help you.  I had to go out and get a van
that, you know, actually was able to carry the lasers and
everything.  That’s how I started my business I was going out and
bringing lasers to people on a daily rental basis.  They could rent
the lasers for the day and we’d split the money and I would bring
them up to the point of becoming a buyer.  The laser company
started selling more lasers.

Michael: Did you negotiate something if they bought a laser?

Jeff: Yes I did.  I got a percentage from the salesman, like let’s
say the salesman got 7%, you know, I’d get 2%.  But remember I’m
getting half of the money.

Michael: Yeah you’re getting the money on the day he’s using it.

Jeff: Right.  So that’s how I actually started my business was just
by doing that, just to get myself income because now I really
didn’t have income.  In the meanwhile I’m developing my marketing
materials and my program for teaching doctors marketing.

Michael: At that time you’re putting together your systems and your
written information.  The whole process from the ad to the time the
phone rings booking the consultation, doing the consultation.

Jeff: Everything that I learned from Jay Abraham is that I learned
personally from running the business.  I was putting that together
in written format.   So now I’ve been doing this for about close to
two years.

Michael: What year are we in now?

Jeff: Nineteen ninety-eight.  Yeah, ’98 and ’99 I was doing that
and that particular laser company the CEO there he left and they
had changes in people and you could just see that it really wasn’t
going to continue the way that it had.  Plus I didn’t like
traveling all around with the laser and everything, very time
consuming, the money was good but it was very time consuming, but I
knew I could have a better business model.  So I went back to
Candela which was, you know, again a company that I knew very well
they knew me very well, I owned a lot of their equipment, they knew
I was successful and they had a business director there who was
very a sharp guy.  And I went in for a meeting with him and I asked
them this question I said “What is it that you sell?”  And of
course they’re a laser manufacture so of course he said we sell
lasers.

Michael: Yeah.

Jeff: And I said “Well, I don’t think so.”  Now, just so you
understand the typical way that a company that sells a laser is
they do seminars.  They’ll do a Saturday seminar, they’ll send out
all their leads to people and they’ll say we’re doing a full day
seminar so everybody goes to the hotel.  You’ll have a doctor come
in that works for the laser company, luminary or whatever it may
be, and he will give a speech on laser didactics.  What is a laser?
How does it work? What does it do?  He’ll show you all the before
and after, he’ll teach you about technology.  That goes on all
morning.  Afternoon they have a hands-on session where they’ll
actually have the lasers there, they’ll have some sample patients
and you get to touch the laser and fire it and, you know, all of
that.  And that’s where they get their leads from and that the
salespeople work those leads.  Now, I use to be asked to speak at
those all the time about marketing.

Michael: You knew how ineffective these things were.

Jeff: Yeah.  So I’d go out to these, I’d go all over the place
constantly going to these seminars and things.

Michael: So did they book these rooms pretty full?

Jeff: They would do pretty well, you know, between I’d say 30 to 50
people at a seminar.

Michael: And the people were doctors.

Jeff: Yes doctors, thinking about getting into the business so
they’re now going to go out and find out more about what’s this
opportunity and the whole and what are the lasers and hear all
great things and see slides and sit there, you know, all morning
and watch the stuff.  And then they would have me do a marketing
presentation and they would give me 10 minutes.

Michael: That’s it.

Jeff: Ten minutes.  The key to the entire business all of your
success and they’d give me 10 minutes.  I did so many of these.

Michael: What did you do in 10 minutes?

Jeff: I would just basically tell them that I had run three laser
centers and give them some of my background and give them the
numbers on how we doubled and doubled and doubled and we did $1
million dollars worth of business, you could do this too.  It
didn’t give me a real lot of time, but I would verify that there
was, you know, at least a business opportunity here.  So I’m
sitting there with this business development manager there and when
I asked him what business he’s in he said “We sell lasers.”  And I
said well, I’ve been to all these seminars and things and I see
doctors have taken this Saturday, they worked hard all week, their
day off, they’re coming out to a hotel, they’re sitting there all
day and do you really think that it’s for the privilege of buying
your laser that they’re coming there.”  So my answer to him is what
you really are selling is a business opportunity.  What a person is
coming to you for is to buy a business not a laser.  I said to him
I have a marketing program that teaches people how to actually
market their laser and make money and what I think you should do as
a company is give it to every single person that buys your laser,
and he said “That’s a great idea.”  And that’s where the program
came from.

So the first program that I developed I called My Candela, and My
Candela became an online marketing program where if a person bought
a Candela Laser they were entitled to the My Candela program.  They
still gave them the marketing toolkit but they were now receiving
my information all based on the teachings of Jay Abraham and my
personal experience and I had my planning module.  Now my planning
module addressed all the issues that a person would have during
startup.  So, you know, they buy the laser, they go onto the
Candela Web site and the way that it was setup is if you put the
serial number of your laser in you would get access to my marketing
material.  So it was given to you.

Michael: It’s all digital.

Jeff: Yes.  And then Candela, of course, included other levels of
my program not just the free program but there were now programs
where I would come out and meet with you and go with your office
for the day and I had different levels of the program.  It will be
a three month program or a six months program where we would work
one hour a week on the telephone and I would work with the staff
and things like that.  That’s how that program developed and, like
I said, that was called Candela.

Michael: Wow.  Once they got behind you and started endorsing
you’re my Candela program what started happening?

Jeff: Well, they sold them all lasers because now the smart
salesperson didn’t walk in and say buy my laser.

Michael: Did their business significantly increase?

Jeff: Significantly.  And a lot of times it became competitive
where there were a number of companies going to the same person
trying to sell them.  And of course most of the sales guys would go
in and they would be talking about the other person’s part and
saying well, yes this pulse oration – they’d be talking all about
the laser.  Now the smarter sales guys would walk in and say I am
going to give you something to help you build your business.  I’m
going to help you be successful if you buy my laser because I’m
going to give you a program that helps you be successful.

Michael: Yeah you gave them what they really wanted.

Jeff: What they really wanted it was the question that I had asked
the guy, what are they buying from you?  They’re not buying a laser
they’re buying a business opportunity but nobody’s helping them run
the business.  So people would buy the laser and then they wouldn’t
know what to do.  This happened time and time and time again
doctors had it not for the business people and they’re very busy
seeing patients all day, so they don’t have time.  So that was the
difference.  So this I believe gave Candela a very big competitive
advantage, and of course eventually it took awhile.  All the other
companies eventually copied my program.

Michael: Oh, really.

Jeff: Of course.

Michael: They just knocked it off.

Jeff: They knocked it off, but we were the first.

Michael: Then they were getting it all free.

Jeff: Yeah they were getting a form of what I was doing…

Michael: Yeah.

Jeff: …free.  I even included in marketing program.  I included a
free Web site with my program.  If you had one of my programs I’d
give you a free Web site because back then everybody didn’t have
one yet.  So that was a big deal to them.  The funny thing is the
Web site became very, very important for people.

Michael: Okay, so they were giving the thing away from free that
there were three months and six months programs.  Would you make
money on those?

Jeff: Absolutely, I would make all my money because I was kind of
coming in with a free program and then there were certain
percentage of people – like if you were going to buy two lasers or
three lasers, now we’re talking significant money.  So now the
salesperson have a lot more latitude and he would say if you buy
the two lasers I’m going to have this guy come out and help you and
work with you.  He’s going to come to your office and meet with you
and you’re going to have telephone conferences setup and the
program will run for three months or six months or whatever it will
be and I’m going to include that.

Michael: Could you make $20,000 or $30,000 grand on one of those?

Jeff: Not on one, not that kind of money, but I could make between
$5000 and $10,000 dollars depending on the program.

Michael: Alright, and you were pretty busy.

Jeff: Very busy.

Michael: So that was brilliant.  Did you ever go to anyone else
besides Candela to do it?

Jeff: Well, I’ve been doing the My Candela program for six years.
Now, again everybody now knocked it off and most of the other
companies were offering something similar.  Candela had a number of
changes again in management just like every big company does.  The
newer people didn’t really get it.  In my estimation they didn’t
understand the value of really what they had and when you have a
change in salespeople there was certain salespeople that absolutely
got it.  The Number 1 salesperson actually was in New England of
all places selling lasers because you would think California and
Florida and certain areas with so many more lasers.  The Number 1
guy was in New England and he’s a very close friend of mine but
he’d tell me all the time he walks, he said he doesn’t sell the
laser he sells the business opportunity.  Different salespeople
will come and go and it depended on how they approached it.  So
Candela with a lot of changes and things about a year ago or so I
had a contract with them that did not allow me to work with a
person that did not own a Candela Laser.  I could only work with a
person that owned that particular laser.  So when my contract was
up I decided not to renew that contract because I could kind of see
that there were just so many changes.  And there was another laser
company that I had been speaking with and knew and they were
interested in the program.  So I was able to keep my relationship
with Candela which is fine it’s a great relationship, but without
that contract.  So they didn’t owe me anything, you k now, other
than the business their salespeople gave and I was able to a second
company and offer them the same kind of a program but I told them
outright that I stole the work with Candela so I didn’t sign
exclusivity with them.

Michael: Okay, great. And how is that going?

Jeff: That’s going fine.  Again in startup it’s always kind of a
process where there’s a small amount of the sales guys that get it
and then the vast majority of people are still out there trying to
sell features and benefits of the laser.  But the ones that get it
and with the new company there’s four or five guys that get 80% of
my business from and it’s the same kind of thing with that
particular company.  I have three levels of my program with
Candela; I have four levels of a program, and the basic program I’m
giving.  It’s kind of like what you do, which of course I learned
some of this from you, but you give away a lot of free material.
And you know that there’s going to be a lot of people using your
free material and eventually there’s going to be a percentage of
those people that become customers and buy something from you,
that’s the exact same thing that I do.

Michael: Yeah that’s true.

Jeff: I give away a lot to people because once they see my stuff or
they know me or they speak with me they know I know what I’m
talking about because I’ve been in the industry now 19 years.  And
it’s very hard to find anybody in the laser industry 19 years
today, you know, five years and you’re a real veteran.  And I come
across from the point of view I always tell people I’ve made every
mistake you can ever make and I was spending a hospital’s budget
money.  So you’re spending your own money, you can’t afford to make
mistakes.  So what I am is on protection and what I ask people to
do is when you’re going to do a marketing piece or whatever you
send it to me I look at and does it meet the rules of marketing.
If it doesn’t meet the rules we don’t do it we change it, we tweak
it until it does and then predictably we should do well.

Michael: Well let me ask you this, this for the consultants.  To
all the consultants anyone listening to this, what would your life
be like if you never approached Candela or a laser manufacturer for
an alliance and you just went out hustling your consulting practice
cold to doctors?

Jeff: I would have been a failure.  Doctors would never have
trusted me.  Doctors are probably the hardest group to market to.
Doctors do not like spending money Number 1 it’s just a plain fact
and I know I never would have lasted in this industry more than a
year, a year and a half without the referral base that I have.  I
only work on a referral basis, I never go to a person and say hire
me because I can help you, ever.  I’m referred directly from
somebody else to them as the person that can help them and that
made all the difference for me.

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Michael: That’s a good answer I just wanted to reiterate that.  And
that’s what we teach the HMA Consultants, you know, when they’re
working with clients to establish alliances or when a consultant
says “Hey, I’m going to get on the phone and do some telemarketing
to see if I can get some clients” I go “Well, that may be fine in
your worst case scenario but if you’re going to do telemarketing do
telemarketing to setup alliances for someone to endorse you as a
consultant.

Jeff: Of course.

Michael: One deal look a t that.  How many doctors did Candela put
you in front of from that one alliance?

Jeff: Well it’s six years of people going through the My Candela
program we’re talking thousands.  And then with the other company
too it’s now a few hundreds and then again when I started the
business in doing the rentals that was with another company so
there’s hundreds over there, so thousands of people have been
exposed to my material.

Michael: You are positioned as the marketing guy in the laser
market.

Jeff: I believe so.  There are other people out there that are
doing it now but most of them come from a marketing or advertising
background.  I don’t know of anybody that actually comes from the
point of view that they’ve actually owned and operated three laser
centers.

Michael: Yeah and that’s big.

Jeff: None of these people have ever actually bought a laser I’ve
bought 11, so there’s a big difference.  And also the vast majority
of people that I see teach institutional advertising.  They teach
blending to everybody which just is the opposite of what I teach.

Michael: You’re marketing stuff still works today like it worked
back in the early ’90s.

Jeff: Absolutely.  The fundamentals of marketing, which I learned
again from Jay Abraham and many other people, but primarily Jay and
his associates the fundamentals go back to what the 1920s none of
that changes, I mean certainly the way you reach people today.  If
I were running the laser center today it wouldn’t be just through
the newspaper or radio, I mean it wouldn’t be that way today
because obviously today with the internet there’s a whole other way
of marketing.  So what I always look out for is who’s the best
teachers that are out there?  Who are the people that I would trust
that I want to learn from just like I did years ago when I first
needed to learn marketing I found Jay Abraham and his associates
and now today I look for the teachers who are on the internet and
search engines and all of that and I have never stopped in 19 years
learning everything that I can learn about marketing.

Michael: So you’re still doing this today.  Do you want to make
changes?  Are you happy doing what you’re doing?  What do you want
to do?

Jeff: Well, the last year, year and a half has been not easy
because the company’s are selling very high ticket items and
there’s been a lot of fear in the marketplace, you know,
recessionary fear.  Certainly I’ve seen my new customer base shrink
but I still have enough customers, there’s not a problem there.
I’m just looking more today at a way of automating everything I do.

Michael: The My Candela do you get the names and the emails of
everyone who has access?

Jeff: Yes.

Michael: Are you allowed to market to them?

Jeff: Yes because they’re my customer.

Michael: They’re your customer.

Jeff: They became my customer so if they signed up for My Candela I
have the names, I have the…

Michael: Oh My Candela is all controlled by you not by Candela.

Jeff: Well jointly controlled.  They signed up on the Candela Web
site but they received my materials and in a lot of cases we were
in contact with each other, and of course, I maintained the
database like of all the people that I was giving the free Web site
to.

Michael: Who owns the URL My Candela, they do?

Jeff: Yeah.  Mine was my laser site where they built it.  And then
I have a builder called MyCandelaWebsite.com.

Michael: Yeah you sent me that.

Jeff: Yeah.  So a Candela customer that’s going to build a Web
site, if I’m going to give them a free Web site they’re going to go
over to MyCandelaWebsite.com.

Michael: How often are you keeping in touch with these through the
My Candela program?  Are you emailing them at all?

Jeff: Well the My Candela program now is really no longer.

Michael: Okay.

Jeff: They’re not giving that away free.  Now, I’m working Elma
Laser and the Elma Laser Group those people are given to me every
month.  So the Elma that’s the new company they’re doing the
program very similar to the original My Candela and I keep in
contact with them.  I use Infusion Soft and some of the things I’ve
learned is I give people so much material it’s informational, so
people don’t really act on it.  My biggest frustrations in life and
one of my biggest problems that I had to learn is that I can’t be
responsible for somebody’s success.

Michael: No you can’t.

Jeff: Yeah and we’re talking of all the people that I meet the vast
majority of people that actually end up buying a very expensive
piece of equipment that are successful, and by whatever measure
that they measure success is only about 15%.

Michael: Really.  Oh well these are always leased right?  Oh no
they’re bought out.

Jeff: No, almost always leased five years.

Michael: Oh so Candela takes them back to their element.  They take
them back right.

Jeff: Oh no, well usually you go through the leasing company and
you have a $1 dollar buyout, that’s how you do the lease.

Michael: Are there a lot of used lasers sitting out there?

Jeff: There’s a lot of people that became disillusioned and now
they want to sell their laser.  Now the problem with doing that
with buying a used laser there’s a number of problems with doing
that, but most times the manufacturer will not support the used
laser.

Michael: Really.

Jeff: Yeah, and lasers need maintenance.  I mean lasers are very
high tech piece of equipment.

Michael: And there’s no independent laser support.

Jeff: There’s a little bit of it now happening but, you know, the
parts and everything you want the parts coming from that
manufacturer, you want that laser maintained.  So a lot of times if
you buy on the secondary market you may have a problem getting that
laser serviced.  That’s one of the problems that people don’t
understand when they buy a laser secondary market.  But there are a
lot of people that bought a laser that just didn’t do nearly the
amount of money they thought they would and then they ended up
selling it.  But it all comes back to one thing.

Michael: They sell it used.

Jeff: They sell it used.

Michael: Because they didn’t do the marketing.

Jeff: They didn’t understand marketing they didn’t do marketing
they never followed through on anything they’re busy working in
their business all day.  And now for the average doctor it doesn’t
affect their lifestyle, what kind of home they live in, what kind
of car they drive.  You know a laser payment is $1200 dollars a
month.  Well just through walk through traffic in the office you
should be able to see 10 patients a month for the laser.

Michael: Yeah the guy is busy.

Jeff: Yeah the laser just becomes kind of another piece of
equipment, but it isn’t the profit center and what people
originally looked at was as a profit center.  Well it didn’t turn
out to be that because they never understood or applied marketing.

Michael: But it could be a great profit center.

Jeff: It could be a great profit center and that’s exactly what I
teach them is it could be.  But the Number 1 reason why most people
fail in this industry that I have found is they do not have what I
call a Marketing Coordinator in their practice, they don’t have
that person.  I ask them to take 20% of their time and devote it to
marketing and 20% of the time devoted to marketing they can grow
that business to any level that they want to because I did it, but
they have to learn the fundamentals of marketing, the rules of
marketing, the foundation.  They have to understand that part of
marketing and they don’t.  So they go out and they spend money just
like I did, they don’t know why they just go out and spend things
and they have no tracking, they just don’t know what to do.

Michael: I’ll tell you that’s what our consultants do, you know,
another one of the things that separates our HMA Consultants is the
consultants will do the execution.  We’re not just selling them
information on how to do it we’re going to execute for them.  Of
course they’re going to need to work with consultants as a team but
the consultants are trained in the execution of these eight
marketing steps of the marketing system that’s put together.  And
that’s a big selling point, you know, instead of bringing in
in-house marketing department and they can hire a consultant and
pay them for steps of the system.

Jeff: Right.  Now that’s tough for a doctor to do just so you know.
Doctors don’t like spending that kind of money.  I mean it’s just
as a group physicians are hard to deal with.

Michael: So do you think my consultants they would be better off
going after other businesses besides doctors?

Jeff: Well they could certainly try to approach physicians but…

Michael: They just don’t like spending the money.

Jeff: They don’t and even my marketing program and things – that’s
why the laser company thinks it’s provided to them free because
they’re not going to spend the money on that.

Michael: I see.

Jeff: So that’s why I go back to foundational marketing, I have to
teach them that marketing is the ultimate financial leverage.  They
have to understand.  They look at marketing as an expense.

Michael: So when they get your free program they call you or you’re
referred to someone and then you’re charging these doctors money
for your consulting…

Jeff: I don’t do that just so you know.  I never charge the doctor
it’s always the laser company.

Michael: Oh you only charge the laser company.

Jeff: Only.  I never have yet charged a physician anything.

Michael: I see, so you’re only going to work with a physician who’s
bought the machine and the laser company pays you.

Jeff: That’s right.

Michael: That’s smart.

Jeff: Yep, that’s the only way that I do business and again that
goes back to – because we’re talking about if I do a $5000 dollar
program or something well if a person just spends a $120,000
dollars the laser company, it’s easy for them to justify paying me
$5000 out of that kind of a purchase, because I learned a long time
ago if I go to doctors and ask them for the money oh no, so I don’t
even do that.  I don’t even work in that arena.

Michael: Fascinating.  This has been a great story.

Jeff: The Asian market really interests me.  Asia to me is a market
that’s just like oh my God there is so much potential there.

Michael: How is the laser industry there?

Jeff: It’s really growing, it’s growing leaps and bound because of
all the new products and things lasers are much more able to treat
all skin types where before you had to be very white to be treated
by a laser.  And now there are new lasers that can treat all
colored skin and different things.  So I just gave a seminar in
Hong Kong just a few weeks ago.  I’ve spoken in let’s see
Switzerland, England, Honk Kong, Vietnam, Thailand and Japan.

Michael: And you’re speaking on marketing.

Jeff: Yes, speaking on laser marketing only.  Only lasers and only
marketing and business buildings and I really enjoy that market out
there.

Michael: That may be something to develop.

Jeff: Yeah it may be.

Michael: But it sounds like you’re going to be racking up more
miles flying all over the world…

Jeff: Both of my girls are now out of college, my youngest just
graduated last May and she’s working and my oldest, you know, went
to school in England.  Yeah I’ve done my duty.

Michael: You’re done with kids, basically.

Jeff: Well, you know, they’re grown up now and I was there for them
and I saw them and I got to go to their things.

Michael: Yeah that makes sense.  You know I do any travelling at
all.  I got a six-year-old and a nine-year-old and I make sure I’m
there every night.

Jeff: And you are there for them.

Michael: Oh yeah.

Jeff: And you will never regret that.

Michael: Nope.  I look at it as one of my greatest accomplishments.

Jeff: I don’t blame you because I came real close to not seeing any
of that with my girls.  And running around and opening up laser
centers for these investment guys…

Michael: Yeah, forget it.

Jeff: Yeah.  And they were going to own my business they were
taking big pieces of it and all of a sudden I said “What am I
doing?”

Michael: Yeah.

Jeff: And I had to reinvent myself and take what I had learned and
be able to open up my own business, my very, very niche business
and stick in that niche and I’ve been in that niche now every since.

 

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About the Author

Michael Senoff is the CEO and publisher of
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The world’s leading free digital audio business library.

Michael is an experienced Internet marketer and talk show host and
a popular professional interviewer. Michael has taught 100% on line
around the country & around the world to more than 50,000 students.

His over-the-top on line audio interview web site
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Michael has also worked as a coach and adviser to other famous
marketing consultants.

Michael is a husband and father of two young boys in Southern
California. He has a successful audio publishing business. Michael
is originally from Atlanta Georgia and is now based in San Diego,
California. Michael works with small to medium sized companies on
four different continents.

He is the author of the book: “TALK YOURSELF RICH”: (86 of the most
revealing, proprietary secrets on the subject of how to make more
money with audio interviews and the soon to be released sequel:
AUDIO MARKETING SECRETS. How To Make Your Own Information Product
Using Audio Interviews.  Michael may be contacted at
Michael@michaelsenoff.com or at (858) 274-7851