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Senoff’s Fat Boy Report . . .

By senoff.michael@gmail.com On September 13, 2010 Under Grow Your Business Fast, HMA Client Interview Training, Marketing Ideas, Rants

Senoff’s Fat Boy Report .   .   .

Slowly but surely I’ve been putting on pounds of ugly fat around my

And that means it time to start running again.

So to avoid the pain of running, I “tune out” by listening to my own

(How sick is that?)

I’ll load up my mp3 player with whatever I can find and I’m off to
the bay to do my training.

And today, my little three mile run when good.

Because I listened to an older interview I had long forgotten about.

And listening to it again not only took my mind off my killing
feet, it reminded just how slick this guy was.

4 years ago I interviewed a 27 Year Old Philadelphia “Boy
Wonder” Who Made $100,000 With One E-mail Mailed To Local Chamber

My HMA Marketing Consulting System includes a group training module
with all the “done for you” curriculum ready to go.

And this interview is a perfect training for anyone who wants to
learn how use their local chambers to sell consulting services.

You may already be doing consulting now but you’re just not getting
paid for it.

Here’s what it’s all about . . .

Alex Whiting, a highly successful marketing consultant kept coming
across my site and decided we should talk.

As I interview Alex, he explained how he developed his marketing
skills as a consultant to earn a minimum of $1,000 an hour and
increase his business.

Listen how one free e-mail produced $100,000 in consulting fees
with a local Chamber of Commerce.

The purpose of this interview is to share Alex Whiting’s
high-powered marketing advice for starting a business, prospecting,
qualifying, marketing, getting referrals, pricing, and closing that
will help you be a successful consultant and enable you to avoid
typical mistakes as you work to increase your business.

You’ll also learn  . . .

* Alex’s background and how he got started.

* How “liking to help people” and “building trust” are critical to
being a good consultant.

* The importance of making improvements in your marketing

* Marketing mistakes to avoid

* Tips for providing value.

You can download the mp3 audio at the link below.

Or print this e-mail and read the transcripts below to reinforce
your learning while listening to the audio interview.


Go to


Michael: And, how much did that email cost you to send out?

Alex: Nothing.

Michael: How many dollars in sales did that eventually, that one
presentation for the chamber bring your consulting business?

Alex: Well over $100,000.

Michael: A hundred thousand dollars for an email out to about a
thousand people to a chamber of commerce. That’s not a bad return.
All my consultants, my HMA consultants, do you think they could
work their local Chambers and do what you did if they have the
tools to put on a PowerPoint?

Alex: Absolutely. People are always looking for ways to increase
their business.


Alex: Hi Michael, my name is Alex Whiting. I’m a Y2 Marketing
consultant.  Actually, oddly enough I’ve ditched just about
everything I’ve learned from them about two years ago, and actually
have become a very successful marketing consultant, now, but I keep
on coming across your website. I keep on coming across your
materials. It seems like you’ve done some interesting thing, so I
think it would be worthwhile to rap with you a little bit and just
kind of understand what you’re up to. Who knows? It’s always nice I
think to talk to somebody who’s in the industry and to share some
ideas and get an idea of what’s going on.

I’m 27 and I’m with Y2 Marketing located in Philadelphia.

Michael: You’re in Philadelphia, and is this your first experience
with consulting? How would you describe yourself? This is Alex
Whiting a marketing consultant. What do you like to call yourself?

Alex: A Purveyor of Profit Steroids.

Michael: A purveyor of profit steroids. Where are you located?
Where in Pennsylvania? Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. So, you’ve been
doing consulting for how many years?

Alex: Eight years.

Michael: Eight years, and you started very young with a software
consulting business?

Alex: Yes.

Michael: And, then moved and started learning a little bit about
marketing and became interested in marketing. You’re working with
chiropractors and mortgage brokers.

Alex: And, realtors and there’s actually several other niche

Michael: How much are you making with your consulting business?
Half a million a year?

Alex: Yeah, I think it could be a lot more than that this year
already. At this point in my career, I’m making over a thousand
dollars an hour for my time spent on any given deal.

Michael: Can I ask how many years you’ve been doing at least a half
a million?

Alex: It really started last year when I learned – it was instead
of doing business with anyone that came to me when I started
leveraging things that worked.

Michael: So, how did you get into all this consulting? Where did it
all start?

Alex: When I was about 18, I started consulting. I actually had a
business in high school where I developed software. It turned into
a consulting business when I was about 18. I started a company when
I was 19, and I grew that to a pretty large size.

Michael: What was your software that you were developing? You were
in high school at 18. Were you a computer nut?

Alex: No, I was 16 when I started doing software development for

Michael: Didn’t’t you tell me you were writing code when you were
four or something?

Alex: That’s right. I was writing software when I was four years
old. I grew up with a computer chip in my head.

Michael: How’s that? Did your parents influence you somehow that

Alex: No, I just hooked to it.

Michael: So, at four years old you were writing code.

Alex: When I was about eight, I wrote a game that was published for
Atari called Special Command. I grew up in a pretty normal family.
I actually around eighth grade I stopped going to school much and
just showed up for testing because I was an expert test taker.  I
pretty much was let go to do whatever I wanted, and somehow I think
it was through my power of persuasion, I got away with it every
time.  So, I went to a private school that was very strict. I did
the same thing, and as soon as I got a car. I bought my own car. I
bought a BMW from writing software for people. I bought my first
car when I was 16. It was a brand new BMW, and I just didn’t go to
school except for test days, and I called meetings with all my
teachers and explained to them what I expected of them. It sounds
ridiculous, but I got away with everything I wanted my whole life.

Michael: Did you ace everything? Straight A’s?

Alex: Yeah, and I didn’t do well in the homework grades because I
never did homework, but this is a key thing and you’ll find this
leads to my success in everything. I am very good at pattern
recognition, and the way I did so well at the tests, and this is a
real critical thing, patterns, and this is a critical thing because
when you’re doing marketing, you have to pick up on default and
speech patterns on the people you’re marketing to.

So, what I would do is I would show up for the first two days in
the class, and I did the same thing in college, and just get a gist
of their patterns, and then when I went to take the test, I would
imagine they were talking to me and they were telling me the

Michael: Okay, and so that helped you ace the tests. So, let’s
apply that to a marketing consulting or you getting an account or
something related to marketing consulting where the people can make
a connection.

Alex: It happens all the time. For example, I market to people who
buy things that I’ve never bought before and I have no clue what
it’s like to buy what they buy, but I may have talked to people
that would be in that target market for example, have some
conversations with them. And, just from little conversations, I can
get a feel for the way they think, and kind of get a feel for their
thought patterns how they would react to certain things, what
sequence of messages they need to hear in order to buy.

Michael: Let’s continue and talk about the software you developed
in high school.

Alex: I mostly developed chess playing software, and also I
developed some network software that I sold under a private
agreement to a small business.

Michael: As you got older, where you’re gaining knowledge in
structuring deals where there was money in it for you?

Alex: Yes, I never had considered myself a salesman, and generally
when someone asked me about some sort of problem or if I solved
problems, just by my nature, I like to help people. That I think is
a critical aspect of being a good consultant. I love to help
people. So, what I would do is just starting talking to them about,
“Hey, have you tried this? Have you considered this?” And,
automatically because I’m talking about them, I established myself
as an expert and I win their trust. That’s how I’ve sold
everything, and that’s still how I sell things. You’ve got to have
that strategy. Jay Abraham calls it the strategy of preeminence,
but you really need to think about who you’re dealing with first
and you need to really focus on giving instead of getting.

My first company, I hired a guy who was a marketing director over
at a similar company that wasn’t a competitor, and I just always
loved the human mind. Ever since I can remember, I was in love with
the human mind and the way humans think. So, I’ve been very
interested in psychology.

Anyway, I hired this guy. He taught me a lot of different things
and this at least got me started on that path.

Michael: You hired him to do consulting with you?

Alex: I basically I had a software company that was the one I
started when I was 19. We developed enterprise software, and what I
did was hire him to market my product.

Michael: Okay, did he do a good job at it?

Alex: No, he didn’t. He failed miserably, and I think his mistake
was the mistake that most marketers have when they go to one
particular niche to another is they forget to continue learning.
They assume that everything’s the same under every buying

Instead of actually trying to take what he used in the past that
was successful and improving on it, he just tried to display over
like a template, and that doesn’t work. However, it really gave me
an education on what not to do, and so here I was with a software
company trying to sell products. Eventually, I was the one who sold

So, a lot of it was through trial and error. I love the human
mind, and I went through actually several. I hired some VPs of
Marketing. I went through three of them actually. So, that’s
eventually I took it over myself. It got frustrating. This was
about, actually my company is about three years old. I’m 22.

So we started branching out to IT consulting, and I started
understanding what the end product of mine is not so that they can
have a cool piece of software or cool computer system or a network.
It’s so they can make money. So, they can be efficient and
effective and they can be innovative with their products and the
way they serve people.

So, really I just don’t like segmenting myself and I didn’t want
to segment my company either. So, I ended up doing a lot of
business consulting along with IT consulting. I often had a
relationship that was really an executive level with the employees
of the company. So, I would actually regularly meet with the owners
of these businesses and they pretty much asked me about everything
when it came to the business, not just the IT stuff.

About 2002, I found Y2 Marketing. I knew I really wanted to take
the business consultant to a step further and really work with
businesses creating more value and more highly impactable ways than
just developing software and computer systems.

Michael: So, were you actively looking or how did you find Y2
Marketing? How did that happen?

Alex: Well, actually at the time, I was setting up a SEO business,
search engine optimization business, but I knew if I really wanted
to focus on value, I wanted to do what lawyers do during
sentencing. Think about anyone who makes a lot of money because
they provide a huge amount of value in return and then make other
people a lot more money.

For example, Tom Cruise gets paid $20 million a picture. Do you
know the built-in audience is probably $100 million? He’s worth $20
million. Any athlete, if you look at it, I mean they get a fee if
they endorse a product, the fact is people who make a lot of money
whether it be real estate agents or a lawyer, people are actually
provide value in great excess of what they provide. They’re very
aware of it, and usually they’re doing it on a performance basis.

The fact is actors are in a sense, doing things on a performance
basis. So, are athletes, so are lawyers, any kind of people who
really make a lot of money. They’re all working from their own, and
they’re pretty much taking a lot of risks that most people aren’t
willing to take.

Michael: And, how did you come across Y2?

Alex: I saw their fax several times.

Michael: What did it say?

Alex: It said, “Make the jump to $350,000 per year to $750,000
within the next 18 months.” Then, they explain – it was a very
well-written fax. It qualifies itself as a legitimate business
opportunity by saying, “We’re not going to mislead you. It’s hard,
and not everyone can do this. We’re only looking for certain kind
of people. We’re looking for people who have at least three years
of sales training, at least three years of business training
preferable entrepreneurs. People who have been making over $120,000
a year for the last three years.” And, they qualified, they gave
you a sense, anyway that they’re qualifying people, and that way it
kind of creates the aura of scarcity, something that people want to
get into.

It was a very well-written ad. I’m actually thinking about using
it as a template for some of the things I’m doing with some
clients. They’ve effectively sold over 1,500 consultants using that
fax blast and at $35,000 a piece.

Michael: It was $35,000?

Alex: That’s correct.

Michael: So, you go this fax, and what were you directed to do? How
many times did you get it before you called?

Alex: Three times.

Michael: And, then you called a phone number.

Alex: I called a phone number and they sent a CD, a preview CD, a
two-CD set I believe, and it was very well packaged CD. It had all
this great copy on it, and then it directed to you to a seminar,
and I went to the seminar.

Michael: Did you pay for the CD?

Alex: No, it was free.

Michael: When you called was it just a voice mail, or did you talk
to someone?

To download this mp3 go to


Alex: Actually, I talked to someone.

Michael: So, did they qualify you further?

Alex: First of all, the need information where to send the CD, and
second, to book you into the seminar.

Michael: Did you know you were going to be booked into a seminar?
Or where you just calling to get a CD?

Alex: Actually, I think so and also they give you a password to a
website detailing the opportunity, explaining the system.

Michael: Okay, so you got three things. They took your address.
They sent you a CD. They gave you a password and a URL to be
directed towards more information, and then they booked you into a
seminar that was going to be in a local area.

Alex: That’s right.

Michael: So, the CD was on the way. Did you immediately go online
to the site?

Alex: Yes.

Michael: And, then how far away was the seminar from the time you
talked to them?

Alex: I think it might have been a week out, a week and a half.

Michael: So, you read through the website and you went to the

Alex: That’s correct.

Michael: Were there a lot of people there?

Alex: Yeah, actually there really wasn’t. There was seven people,
and it was a smaller room. It was done in the evening. I believe it
was a Thursday evening, and it was done I believe after – I think
it was like at seven o’clock. It was like from seven to ten, and
then after the initial seminar, you booked an appointment with a
recruiting agent for the following morning and then pretty much
they tried to sell you right then and there.

Michael: So, what was the seminar? Was it someone up there talking,
going through?

Alex: Yes, it was PowerPoint slides, and they pretty much did a
funneling down approach where they explained all the problems with
the typical job nowadays, and how difficult it is to really make a
lot of money. You could be in the top one percent and still be
broke. You could make $350,000 a year and still be broke, but what
kind of opportunities are most lucrative, what kind of avenues do
you have available to you. Eventually, everything is funneled down
to mesh with their opportunity.

Michael: So, it’s pretty compelling presentation?

Alex: Yes.

Michael: All through the PowerPoint, all structured, scripted and

Alex: That’s correct.

Michael: And, were you at tables or chairs?

Alex: We were at tables.

Michael: Okay, was Curtis the guy doing it?

Alex: I believe it was Curtis.

Michael: Okay, so he was taking you through the PowerPoint. So, at
the end of that, if you choose to, you could book an appointment
with the recruiting agent, or if you weren’t interested, you just
walked away or what?

Alex: That’s right.

Michael: And, so you choose to book something.

Alex: Right, and then, in return you get a second password for the
website where you get even more information. I think they might
have even given you more bonuses as well, some sort of packet, an
information packet that had an air of exclusivity to it.

Michael: And, that was for if you recruited for an appointment for
the next morning.

Alex: That’s right.

Michael: Okay, so you did that. You probably went online, checked
it out, then you came back for your appointment. Then, it was
pretty much they were trying to sell you actually.

Alex: It was a hard sell. It was takeaway kind of sell, and Curtis
would say things like, “You know what you really should be asking
me is what you can do to make sure you’re successful in this
business.” So, he kept on trying to qualify me instead of me
qualifying him. I saw through it, and I just leveled with him, but
he was pretty persistent. He’s a good salesman.

Michael: So, you wanted to do it, and you did it.

Alex: Yes, that’s correct.

Michael: Did you do it right there?

Alex: I pretty much told him that I would take these documents
home. I would get back to him the following day. They were trying
to get me to sign right then and there, and I just have a personal
policy to never do that. I know how good salesmen can be, and it’s
really easy to get sold something that you really don’t need or
don’t want. So, I always sleep on it at least on day.

He said he made a special exception. He gave me his cell phone
number for that, but I’m sure he was happy with his commission.

Michael: Did you pay it all at once $35,000?

Alex: It was $3,500 down, and then before you could actually come
to the seminar you had to pay the balance, and you had up until
like noon on the second day to back out.

Michael: Okay. The actual seminar – how far off was that scheduled?

Alex: It was about a month and a half. They had them going like a
few months, but I had to find something that would work with my

Michael: So, from the time you put your $3,500 down, what were you
doing? What did they instruct you to do?

Alex: They sent a whole box filled with classic marketing and
advertising books about persuasion and influence, and pretty much a
list of things to do to prepare to set up your office with a bunch
of instructions and guides on how to get you pre-started in your

They gave you something called the Agent Resource Text that pretty
much had all their systems in Word and PowerPoint and Excel and PDF
documents so you could start looking at that. So, you were supposed
to familiarize yourself with all these materials before you went to

Michael: And, did you do that?

Alex:   Yes.

Michael: Was it some pretty helpful stuff?

Alex: It was, and I had a hard time seeing where they really made
that jump from the materials that gave you which they claimed was
their background materials, that was their grounding materials.

Michael: They claim that that first box was their grounding

Alex: That’s right.

Michael: But, it was just books that you could get at Amazon or the
book store, some of them.

Alex: That’s correct. What was really powerful was the other
system. They have this thing called the ASA packet which pretty
much is a system to walk them through creating great marketing.

Michael: Creating great marketing?

Alex: That’s correct.

Michael: What’s ASA stand for?

Alex: Articulated Sales Argument.

Michael: So, it’s a system for creating great marketing for a

Alex: That’s right.  Actually, any kind of written or spoken
communication with a prospect or customer.

Michael: Okay, so, you went through the books. You were grounded
and you got familiar. You went to the seminar. Was the seminar
local where you were?

Alex: The actual training seminar was a five day seminar down in
Dallas, Texas.

Michael: All right, so that was down in Dallas. So, you flew out
there, and you went through the seminar and training. Were you

Alex: Well, the first day I was. There’s a guy by the name of Ed
Earl who is the co-founder of it. He was a pretty charismatic.  He
obviously had a very big ego, but it was kind of endearing. It was
funny. The first day everyone’s all dressed up. The room was
packed. They would pack these things with a hundred people. It was
unbelievable. He walked in with a track suit. It was track suit
pants and like a golf shirt tucked into his track suit pants with a
big honking Rolex on. So, before you came there’s another part I
left out, you were supposed to listen to this conference call. So,
there was this big aura that had gone up around Ed Earl. So,
everyone was kind of like, “Whoa.”

The first thing he says is something like, “I see you guys are all
dressed up, but we don’t really care about that, and we like the
fact that you guys are all dressed up, and we can wear whatever we
want.” So, that’s pretty much how he broke the ice.

To download this mp3 go to


Michael: Was that disappointing?

Alex: No, I think it just showed how brash he was and maybe like,
“I’m above all that.” It created an aura of that.

Michael: What was the first day basically? What did you learn there?

Alex: The first day was learning about the problems with
traditional marketing and advertising and going in-depth about
writing headlines and also developing and understanding your target
market’s emotional hot buttons, their values. But, the first day
was more of an overview of everything else we were going to cover
more in-depth.

Michael: Did he talk about his experience where he learned a lot of
his stuff from?

Alex: No.

Michael: He didn’t mention he was a Jay Abraham protégé?

Alex: No, he didn’t. In fact, he bashed Jay Abraham.

Michael: He did?

Alex: Yes.

Michael: Why? What did he say?

Alex: I don’t really quite remember, but I think he was just saying
he just was a lot of talk and he really couldn’t deliver when it
came down to it. It was kind of ridiculous. He pretty much
referenced all these classic marketing and advertising folks. He
didn’t give credit to anyone except for people that were dead.

Michael: Okay.  You were going over fundamental stuff, probably a
lot of the stuff in the books – headlines, the problems with the
advertising, and the second day you had until twelve o’clock to get
your money back, but everyone there were pretty confident they were
going to stay the five days?

Alex: Yes, he kept on building a case. In the first day, he built
quite a strong case about how much money you can make, and probably
after noon, after the cut off date then they switched over to a
different presenter. Apparently, Ed Earl is too busy to running a
seminar that he’s going to be making a million dollars from. And,
they put Ed Earl’s best friend from like high school, who
supposedly had a marketing company that he sold. This guy was an

Michael: Do you know his name?

Alex: Don something.

Michael: Okay.

Alex: But, he was an idiot. He pretty much just read the slides
verbatim, and during the break when I asked him a question, he just
didn’t seem to understand basic questions and he really didn’t have
an answer.

Michael: So, by the end of the second day, it was too late for
anyone to get their money back, and then they brought on another
presenter and he wasn’t too swift in your opinion.

Alex: That’s right, and on Wednesday, he showed up 45 minutes late,
and everyone was pretty much waiting for this guy. And, he was
tired. He said he only got like a two hours of sleep the previous
night, he had like an hour and a half or something, and he was just
out of it all day, and he was the only one that presented. I think
Ed Earl showed up for all of an hour, 45 minutes during that day.

Michael: Were people getting pissed?

Alex: I think so, yes. It was pretty ridiculous.

Michael: Then the next day? Same guy presenting?

Alex: No, the fourth day, Ed Earl took over about halfway through,
and then the fifth day the CEO of Y2 Marketing, the other
co-founder. Ed Earl was the president. Rich Harshall, he started
talking about pretty much characteristics of a successful person,
having a successful mindset, and all things discipline in your
practice. He showed up with a black eye. He’s actually a pretty
good guy. He showed up with a black eye because he was playing
basketball the previous day.

Michael: So, he had a black eye, and he’s going over core material.
All right, so you left the thing, you’ve got to pay a certain
percentage of your sales to them, right, in the agreement?

Alex: Yes, ten percent.

Michael: So, ten percent of your gross of whatever you sell, they
get, right?

Alex: That’s correct.

Michael: How are you with that? How are most people with that

Alex: I think people don’t really think much of it.

Michael: Okay, no big deal.

Alex: In return, they offer support.

Michael: Was the support good? Was it what they said?

Alex: In my experience, it was pretty decent, however, I found that
the support people kind of had a one-track mind. The Monopolize
Your Marketplace System, which is the whole system that this whole
big program is based on, that’s all they could think of, Monopolize
Your Marketplace. And, they believe it’s the end all be all.
There’s a pervasive attitude that they found the secret to all
marketing problems in that this system is pretty much a gift.
They’re all, frankly they’re all Mormons, and they believe that
this system was given to them as a gift from God. And, their
responsibility is to see that it is spread throughout the world.
I’m not kidding, that’s really what they think.

Michael: Wow, all the people working for the company?

Alex: Yes, and actually the CEO, Rich Harshall, he’s a great guy,
and I think he’s a very smart guy, and I think there’s a lot of
merit to the MYM system. However, I think he has kind of tunnel
vision. I think he’s a little diluted.

Michael: So, you get home. You’ve gone through the training. You’ve
already got the consulting experience. How did you use what you
learned? Were you able to use it effectively? What’s the first
thing you did when you got home?

Alex: The first thing I did was set up a seminar. We were members
of the Chamber, and I joined under Y2 Marketing as well as a second
membership. Coincidentally, my other company which was IT
developing company already had a seminar.  But, at the Y2 Marketing
seminar, I had about 75 people show up.

Michael: How did you promote that?

Alex: I just used the lead generator that they use for fax blasting
and driving people to seminars, and I just had the Chamber email
that out to.

Michael: So, they sent an email out to the members. How many
members in the Chamber were there?

Alex: A thousand.

Michael: Okay, so you got a thousand members, and you had 75. You
used the standard fax document to get people to the seminar, and
then you got 75 people show up. What day was it on?

Alex: I think it was a Thursday morning.

Michael: Okay, what kind of seminar were you going to do? Was it
PowerPoint? It was already structured for you, right?

Alex: Power.

Michael: Right, PowerPoint.

Alex: It was structured. It was right out of the box. It was
something they gave us in training.

Michael: Did you have to bring a projector?

Alex: They had a projector at the Chamber.

Michael: Had you practiced it before you did it?

Alex: Yes.

Michael: So, you felt comfortable. Now, before you go on, what’s
the ultimate goal? Do the PowerPoint and what?

Alex: The ultimate goal is trying to get them in some sort of
service that we offer, and the offerings at the time were
consulting – which is one-on-one private consulting, group training
– which was called the mastermind system, or fulfillment. Now, I
never really wanted to sell people fulfillment services.

Michael: Describe that, what is fulfillment services?

Alex: You have an ad to place. Well, we can help you with that.

Michael: Okay, design and develop it.

Alex: Right.

Michael: What else? What other fulfillment services?

Alex: Radio ads, selling radio ads, graphic design, printing –
anything that has to do with marketing.

Michael: Y2 was set up to do all that.

Alex: That’s right. We were getting interest, but I was never, ever
interested in selling that stuff. We hadn’t sold anything like that
to date.

Michael: Okay, so you’re left with two options for this group –
group training or the mastermind thing, or individual one-on-one

Alex: That’s correct.

Michael: Okay, so how long is the PowerPoint presentation?

Alex: The PowerPoint presentation is structured like this – the
first thing we do is talk about what the MYM System is and what it
does, about how it will increase your business two, three, four
times without them spending more money than they already are.  Then
it goes into the old days of selling how you could easily get
appointments, and now you can’t. The bridge is good marketing.

Then, we described why current marketing and advertising is done
in the way that it’s done and why does it work for a typical small
to mid-size business.

Then, we reveal something called the Marketing Equation, which is
kind of a slight altercation of the AIDA formula. We show them some
examples of that. We show some success stories of Y2 Marketing has.

At the end, we said, “Do you want to monopolize your marketplace?
Well, here’s two paths to monopolization.” And, from that seminar,
we got five people to sign up for the mastermind group which was
$3,500 a piece.

Michael: Did they pay right then or just eventually?

Alex: Within a week.

Michael: Okay, $3,500 a piece. What did they get with that
mastermind group?

Alex: Mastermind group was basically a twice a month course that
lasted two hours every class for six months whereby we would
actually lead them through the whole monopolize your marketplace

We eventually booked twelve people into that from all different

Michael: From that one seminar at the Chamber?

Alex: Well, we also went through our warm list, and started
marketing to our warm list.

Michael: So, you had twelve at $3,500, and that was a twelve month

Alex: Six month program, four hours a month.

Michael: Four hours a month, okay, great, that’s exciting. That’s
some good money right there, huh?

Alex: Yeah, it’s not bad. If you crank it down on an hourly basis,
I was making well over a thousand dollars an hour.

Michael: And, the presentation for the training was all out of the

Alex: No, actually, I created it all myself.

Michael: But, did they have out of the box training for those group

Alex: Not yet, I actually knew it was coming, and they told me it
wasn’t ready, but I sold it anyway. I had confidence that I
understood the system well enough that I could create my own
training system out of it.

Michael: How did that go? Did you enjoy doing those group trainings?

Alex: Yes, it was frustrating. What was very difficult is the
people have problems implementing.  They got a lot of it and we
converted quite a number of them to one on one private consulting
clients because they realized how much work it is, but it was a
little frustrating because people were just not getting it.

So many of them had their egos so invested in what they’re already
doing. There’s a saying that a lot of people rather be right than
rich. That’s a typical small business owner. That’s why they stay
small. They’re concerned about feeling justified in their actions.
They never step outside and see what they can do differently.

The felt by participating in this course then they were doing the
right thing, and it really didn’t require any kind of real work or
change on their part.

Michael: So, what you’re saying is from your experience there,
people, they want better marketing, but they don’t want to do
better marketing themselves. But, would you say these people would
rather pay somebody to do the marketing for them?

Alex: Absolutely. They don’t want any kind of responsibility
whatsoever. They would just love to hand someone a check and then
for you to hand them back higher sales.

Michael: Let me ask you this before we move on, that Chamber
meeting, how many did you sign up for one on one consulting? Tell
me the differentiation between the people – why some choose group,
and why some choose individual, from your experience.

Alex: Well, we only signed one one-on-one deal, but it was a pretty
big deal.

Michael: Was it a standard thing or you could charge different

Alex: It was $9,000 a month for eight months, plus five percent of
their sales increases.

Michael: Okay, so from that one Chamber meeting, you had a guy who
did that, a business who signed up for that.

Alex: That’s right, and this was a mid-sized printing company that
did about seven million dollars a year who are still a very good
client of our. Now we’re just participation only.

Michael: Let me ask you a question – sorry to interrupt – how much
did that email cost you to send out?

Alex: Nothing.

Michael: So, you invested a couple of hours doing this
presentation. How many dollars in sales did that eventually, that
one presentation for the Chamber bring your consulting business?

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Alex: Actually I haven’t added it up, but it was well over a
hundred thousand.

Michael: A hundred thousand dollars for an email out to about a
thousand people to a Chamber of Commerce. That’s not a bad return.

Alex:  But, I’m just very comfortable doing consulting. A lot of
people who were sold on the system were in their ’40s, sometimes in
their ’50s, even in their ’60s, and they spent their whole career
doing something completely different than consulting.

They’ve never worked for themselves. I’ve always worked for
myself. They’re just not very entrepreneurial. A lot of them were
engineers and didn’t really have good people skills. So, I think
they were a little too promiscuous in offering the training and the
consulting program to certain people. I just don’t think that
certain people were cut out for it.

Michael: Did you do any more promotions or any more presentations
or did you just work with those that you generated from the first
Chamber meeting? Were you continuing to do marketing or were you
working with clients in the group mastermind presentations for a

Alex: Well, we got busy pretty quick. We did a second seminar at a
hotel where we did do the fax blast, and we got about a hundred
businesses in there.

Michael: Right, so, you did a fax blast. They gave you the art and
everything, and you faxed it out to who?

Alex: We faxed it out to any business fax number we had access to.

Michael: How many did you send out?

Alex: I think I sent out about 3,000 faxes.

Michael: To your local area?

Alex: That’s right.

Michael: And, the fax was an offer for what? A free seminar or did
they have to pay?

Alex: It was for a free seminar and $288 worth of bonuses just for
showing up.

Michael: Okay, and when was it held? In the morning?

Alex: It was in the morning from eight until noon.

Michael: So, you have about a hundred businesses show up.

Alex: That’s right.

Michael: Did you use a standard PowerPoint like you did at the

Alex: No, this was a four hour thing.

Michael: Oh, four hours. The PowerPoint was how long?

Alex: Well, the one at the Chamber was a one hour. The PowerPoint
that we did when we put a seminar completely by ourselves was four

Michael: All right, and how much of it was PowerPoint? What was
this? How did this differentiate from the initial one hour one?

Alex: Well, it was much more indepth. We actually had them go
through parts of the system right there at the seminar, and we
actually did some hot seat, we just call it flash consulting, right
there in front of the group.

Michael: Did people seem to like those?

Alex: Yeah, absolutely.

Michael: So, people would get up in front of the room and they’d
talk about their business, and you or the whole group would try and
find their problems?

Alex: Actually, I would pretty much try to fix the problems, but
what I would do, for example, we’ll just say someone is a roofer,
and they want to know how to create a marketing piece that’s going
to effectively get people to call him before his competitors. So,
what we do is say, “Look, let’s talk a poll.” So, we would survey
the group. “Has anyone here ever had a roofer place?” And, maybe
ten people have, and “What are your experiences? What were your
concerns? What was your buying process or your selection process in
selecting a roofer? Explain to me the kind of frustrations you had.”

So, basically coaching the businesses on the fact that the
ultimate answer is in finding out how to market to someone is not a
marketing guru, it’s the actual prospect themselves. Really
learning how to survey and ask them and focus on your target market.

Michael: Okay, how did you like doing the four hour presentation?

Alex: Well, it was difficult because at this point I started seeing
the problems with MYM system.

Michael: Tell me about that.

Alex: The MYM System, really the whole presentation’s about
advertising. And, really I think it’s because this double thing.
They are going to create a system that is the ultimate system for
marketing, I think it has to be just a portion of the marketing
segment, not the whole pie. So, they focused on advertising and
they really call it defined set-up. People were already
advertising. We could easily go in and change our advertisements
and boom, make them a lot of money.

Michael: So, you didn’t talk about three ways to grow a business.
You talked about three ways to make your advertising better.

Alex: That’s right

Michael: Then, advertising is just a small part of the marketing

Alex: That’s correct.

Michael: So, there was really nothing else other than improving
results in advertising.

Alex: It was about their messaging too in terms of creating – we
showed them how to create an elevator pitch, but it really wasn’t
comprehensive. It didn’t talk about the pillars kind of philosophy.
It didn’t talk about optimizing what you’re already doing.

Michael: Where were these frustrations coming out because people in
there maybe weren’t doing advertising or what?

Alex: Well, yeah, some people were like, “Oh, we don’t do Yellow
Page advertising.” Or “We don’t do advertising.” Because the
seminar says, “Learn the newest, most effective marketing
advertising and sales techniques.” That was the headline, and we
talked about some more pure marketing and sales stuff, but it’s
really around advertising.

Michael: All right. So, that became apparent during that four hour

Alex: Yes.

Michael: There were some people who it just wasn’t relevant for

Alex: Right, and even though technically they could’ve taken that
information and really used it say in a sales letter or just what
they say to a client in a sales pitch, put together in a report.
They didn’t see the application of that information.

Michael: Okay, so that was frustrating. Anything else?

Alex: I would say that when you get a client from that kind of
scenario, that people expect you to pretty much do what is done in
that seminar, all the examples we’d be showing them in the seminar.
However, that’s not the best way to enter into a consulting

What you want to do is, first of all, look at what they’re doing
already and optimize that. Instead of putting it on, as Jay would
put it, a different pillar that they have no experience then and
just confusing the issue further. So, their expectations as far as
what should be done is based on the seminar, and actually even the
MYM audio book.

Their expectations are, I think, not correct. I’ve literally gone
into a business and I’ve tripled their sales in the first month,
and they were like, “When are we really going to get to use this
thing?” And, that was because I didn’t manufacture papers properly
because I hadn’t gone through what “the Monopolize Your Marketplace
System” was.

Michael: Yeah, you were pitching people all at one time. You
weren’t looking at them individually, like you had a chance to sit
down with them and really look at what they want and where they
were at individually. So, after that you did the workshop to a
hundred people, what were the results from that? What came out of

Alex: That actually, believe it or not, created less business than
the Chamber seminar.  I believe we may have got some more
mastermind people.  We did get one client, but it was a smaller
client. But, the quality just wasn’t as high, but the volume was

Michael: The volume was there, but what you delivered was different
from what they were there for.

Alex: Yeah, and I actually thought a lot about that since, and I
really think it’s because the people had the kind of businesses
where they’re actually respond to, they expect less. The owner’s
actually going to respond to that versus like a secretary because
they’re small businesses.  That printing company client which was
the first client that I go after becoming a Y2 marketing
consulting, I would’ve never reached them through a fax blast.

Michael: Yeah, your Chamber of Commerce market was a lot more
qualified than the fax market.

Alex: Yes, absolutely.

Michael: That’s probably why. You had a higher quality list.

Alex: Yeah, and a lot of the people that showed up to the seminar
were sales people.

Michael: Yeah, it was also somewhat of an endorsed offer since it
was done through the Chamber.

Alex: It’s huge. I’ve done testing. When you send something through
a Chamber of Commerce, the open rate is like 85 percent.

Michael: Tell my consultants, my HMA consultants, do you think they
could work their local chamber and do what you did if they have the
tools to put on a PowerPoint?

Alex: Oh absolutely. People are always looking for ways to increase
their business, and people love these things. The fact is every
single seminar that you ever go to at the Chamber; you’re going to
see the same insurance salesman. You’re going to see the same real
estate agent. You’re going to see the same hustlers, but you’re
still going to get a good percentage of people that are legitimate

Michael: You saw some problems with the message in the Y2 system,
what is your thinking now? What did you do from there?

Alex: Well, actually the whole next year I actually said, “You know
what? I’m not really interested in taking any kind of client on”,
and I realized I don’t need clients. That’s one thing is very
critical to understand because if you’re really that good at
marketing, and you really understand how to drive business, you do
not need a client because you have so much leverage that you could
pretty much create a system that will create a flood of business
for a particular industry. Or, you can create a system and license
it to multiple companies within that industry.

Michael: So, give me an example of what you were thinking in
relation to what you were doing. So, you said, “I want clients.”
With working with clients individually, was it tough for you?

Alex: No, not at all. I didn’t think it was a high leverage of my
time, but I really made the jump in income was from actually
creating systems and leveraging across a group of companies within
the same industry versus going to one guy might be a printing
company, one might be an insurance company, and one might be an
auto repair shop.

It’s just too hard to really leverage these kind of deals
together, but it’s great if you get like a mortgage company and a
real estate company, and an insurance company because all three of
them have the same fire, and you can leverage these people off of
each other and really just create this enormous synergy.

Michael: So, who would you recommend consultants stay away from?
What kind of clients should they stay away from, and what kind of
clients would you suspect are really nice, potential clients?

Alex: Anyone asking for a reference right away, I would stay away

Michael: What do you mean by, I don’t understand what you mean.

Alex: Well, if you’re sitting down and you finally get that meeting
and they’re asking for references – you don’t want to deal with
those kinds of people. Even if you do have good references to give
them, they’re never going to try to go through the care that they
need to go through to really understand what you can do for them.
It’s just that client is someone that I don’t know what you guys
give the people, but Y2 Marketing consultants they give the people
the MYM audio book. It’s a Monopolize Your Marketplace audio book,
and all of those clients listen to that thing five, six times.

Michael: Is it just a CD? Or is it a book, too?

Alex: It’s a two CD audio book.

Michael: Okay, so, your best clients, they devour it.

Alex: That’s right.

Michael: So, they’re qualified, they’re also pre-educated about
what they can expect.

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Alex: I don’t use the MYM CDs, and I’m not really using MYM System
with them. I actually use that as a tool when I do take on clients,
but the point is whatever marketing tool you have as long as it’s
educational, I did look at the HMA presentation. It seemed pretty
educational.  Make sure that they really understand it. Make sure
they devour it. Make sure that they’re converts and not just a

Michael: You don’t have to spend your time convincing. You’ve got
two people on the same side of the table trying to grow a business.

Alex: That’s right, and you always find out what the other stuff
that makes them successes.

Michael: What have you found? How does that help you?

Alex: Because if their definition of success if get rich quick and
pretty much retire to the Bahamas, then they’re not going to have a
vision or the discipline to invest in their business for the long
haul. For example, I’m sure you guys talk about the lifetime value
of a customer. Well, a get rich quick thinker is not interested in
exploring that because they don’t really care about the lifetime
value of a customer. They just want to get a lot of money right
away. You really want to stay away from that.

But, if their vision of success is having a driving company that
has lots of happy customers, and they love what they do. I always
ask them before I take them on as a client, I always ask them, “Why
are you in this business? Why did you choose to go in this
direction in life? Is there something else you’d rather be doing?”
Because the people who really are successful, love what they’re
doing. Bill Gates doesn’t want to retire even though he has all the
money in the world. He loves what he does. Warren Buffet is going
to be managing his investment portfolio until he dies. That’s
because he loves what he does.

You want to find business owners who are like that because those
are the people who are really going to take advice seriously,
really get your ideas and implement it. The people who are just
looking for a quick buck and as a way to serve only themselves and
not their customers or the marketplace, they’re not going to be
good clients for you.

Michael: Can we talk about some success stories, some consulting
clients, and just some exciting stories of how marketing or
advertising or your consulting practice really picked-up sales for
a company? What one client really sticks out in your mind?

Alex: Well, I created a niche for myself and there’s two niche
industry that I’ve created. One’s chiropractic, and just general
alternative healthcare. The second is mortgage and real estate.

Michael: I mean those are other people in that niche marketing even
if there’s four or five players. Is there still plenty of room for

Alex: Yes, absolutely because the fact is that there’s people that
sell marketing systems for just about any kind of industry you can
think of, and a lot of my clients have already seen this stuff,
these marketing systems, but they want someone to go and customize
a system exactly for them.

Michael: Right, here we go. We’re getting back to the same thing we
talked about earlier. People don’t want content. They don’t want
systems. They want someone to do it for them, right?

Alex: They want someone to work with them, hold their hand. Someone
they can hold accountable. Someone that they know has the best
interest in the heart.

Michael: So, what you were offering was different than just an
information product on how to grow your chiropractic business?

Alex: That’s right.

Michael: You mentioned two niche industries. Now, let’s talk about
the importance of niching yourself in a certain area as a
consultant compared to being a general business growth strategist
or marketing consulting for anyone and everyone. Are you better off
with a niche?

Alex: Absolutely.

Michael: Why?

Alex: For one, you can leverage your time much more effectively.
You don’t have to recreate the wheel every single time. However,
before you get into a niche, I do recommend that you consult with
multiple businesses just so you can get a flavor of different
scenarios because one of the most powerful things you can do is
take something that works with another industry, and apply it a
completely unrelated industry. It really gives you a lot of
leverage. It’s a funnel thinking.

So, it’s really helpful, and honestly even those are my niches, I
still take on random businesses. There are people that I like that
I met that really want to help, and that’s only maybe 20 to 30
percent of my practice, but it helps to keep me sharp, and helps to
keep my skills honed and refined and helps me develop better
systems in my niche industry.

Michael: So, what are you doing with the chiropractic industry?

Alex: Well, for example what I do is I send – there’s several
different ways to get into a chiropractor, but generally, I use
three or four different methods to really get them as a client, but
it all revolves giving them service, giving them free advice. But,
once you get in, the first thing I do is I look at what they’re

Michael: The first thing you do is you look at what they’re doing.

Alex: Yes, and then I identify what I call, “profit leaks.”

Michael: What kind of lead generation, what kind of piece do you
get to get in front of them before you’re able to look at their
profit leaks? What’s working for you?

Alex: That’s the cool thing about chiropractors. I can walk in, and
just act like an interested patient. I’ll say to them, “Oddly
enough, I’m a marketing consultant, and I was just doing some
research for my client and you seem to have a pretty good
operation. I have a lot of information I can share with you about
your competitors.  Why buy a research about your competitor about
what their doing and about marketing trends? If you want, I can
talk to you about it.” And, I’ve never had anyone say no yet.

Michael: They love to know what their competitors are doing.

Alex: That’s right, and then I say, “Well, look. I don’t really
have time now. I’ll come back when you have some time maybe before
or after patients start coming in.” You usually want to catch them
before patients come in. And, you sit down and you talk to them
about it, and you explain to them the problems and you get a feel
for what their personality is like. You want someone that’s going
to implement, and that’s really what I’m trying to get a feel for.

Why are they doing chiropractics? If they have a passion, are they
interested in expanding their customers’ buying patterns? Or do
they kind of have a narrow-minded view of what they do?

So, I really work for them because I also work on the innovation
side of their business, and really service offerings about where
they are in the mind of the eighty percent of the people out there
that don’t like chiropractic.

So, I really work on expanding their thinking and talking to them
about other alternatives and their methods and how they all kind of
work together, and how chiropractic can be the help of the wheel.

Michael: So, you’re working just in your local area? This is
primarily how you’ve been dealing with chiropractics is through
referrals and just walking in cold.

Alex: That’s right, and generally what happens is eventually
they’ll say, “Well, how much will it cost to work with you?” I say,
“Well, first of all before we get into that, I really want to
understand you a little bit better. I want to make sure this is
something that’s going to work out for both of us. I’m not
interested in clients. I’m interested in partners.”

The fact is that’s the truth. It’s not a lie. You don’t want a
client if you’re going to have a perpetual relationship with them.
You want a partner, and all of my chiropractic partners, they’re
pretty much in business with me. I go out and check in with them. I
give them advice on how to run their operation, and constantly work
with them.

Michael: I like that. That’s excellent.

Alex: Generally, I always ask them. I’ve already got them to a
comfort point of them pretty much disclosing everything about their
finances with me – how much money they’re paying themselves, how
much money they’re bringing in each month, what their overhead is,
what they would like to be, what mistakes they think they’re
making, what their retirement plans are, everything. Then, I’ll
say, “Well, look, one I’m a performance based consultant. That does
not mean that  you can get me for free, and I’ll tell you why
because people do not respect what they do not pay for.” This has
been my experience. This is not a lie either because I’ve taken on
clients on contingency only and they’ve been disasters.

I want to make sure that you have an invested interest in this
process just as well as I do. So, I find a monthly figure that
makes sense to their cash flow, that isn’t so much that they’re
going to panicking if I don’t deliver quickly enough, but isn’t so
little where they don’t really feel like they’ve invested

Michael: Well, give me a range between some at what and some at

Alex: As low as $3,500 a month for six months up to $9,000 a month.

Michael: For six months?

Alex: Yeah, generally I do a six month thing, plus then I arrange a
deal where I get about a third of increased business.

Michael: Thirty-three percent of increase in net?

Alex: Revenue.

Michael: Gross?

Alex: Gross, yeah.

Michael: Because you’re dealing with a service business, there’s
enough in it for you.

Alex: That’s right.

Michael: That’s another good advice. If you’re going to do
consulting, you’d be a lot better of if you do set up contingency
relationships and go with a service business that has high margins
rather than some manufacturer or grocer that’s making three or four

Alex: Absolutely, this printing company client, I make good money
from them, but their margins are so low, that the most they can
give is five percent of the increased sales.

Michael: Are you taking them through a systemized questionnaire? I
mean, in your consulting, do you have a questionnaire?

Alex: You know, Y2 Marketing gave us one when we started. I created
my own. I mean, at this point, I really don’t use the Monopolize
Your Marketplace System.

Michael: Yeah, you’ve done your own thing.

Alex: I still send Y2 Marketing their ten percent pretty much in
gratitude because if I hadn’t had that as the starting point, I
wouldn’t have had the confidence I think or the solution I needed
to get into marketing consulting.

Michael: That’s good. You’re a good man. Let’s say you know
everything about my consulting practice. Tell me how are you going
to close it? You’re going to say to me what? And, how are you going
to make me the offer for the money. What are you going to say to me?

Alex: Are you saying if I were to go after a consulting business?

Michael: After a client, I’m your chiropractor client. We’ve
talked. We’ve got a trust relationship. You know my finances, and
now you’re “close me”. What are you going to say to me?

Alex: I never close anyone. I let them close themselves.

Michael: All right. Well tell me how do you do that?

Alex: This is where part of the art comes from. In my last
business, I had a 95 percent closing ratio. In this business, it’s
about the same. It’s just part of my nature to close people.
Generally, if I had to really look at myself objectively, what I do
is all I do is talk about them. All I do is talk about what’s going
on, and then I give them advice, and I lead them down. I funnel
them – identify the pain in a broad sense. I identify the trends. I
understand something about the chiropractor industry. It’s just
real powerful if you say something like, “Did you know that
chiropractic, in terms of people who are certified to practice is
growing two and a half times as fast as the population right now?”
It’s the highest default of any kind of student loan is

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You identify what kind of problems they have and their
frustrations. They can’t reach out to that marketplace that’s
turned off by the chiropractic. You’ve got to show them that you
know about the industry, and then you start showing them, “This is
what I created to help solve this problem.”

I actually bring a lot of the materials with me. I show them.
Then, they invariably will ask, “What does it cost to get involved
in this?” “Before we even talk about money, I need to understand
some things about you.” I qualify them because the fact is and
that’s not a sales ploy either. That’s the thing that’s just being
a smart consultant because if you just take on any chiropractor
that’s willing to send you a check or any business within an

Michael: You’ll be sorry.

Alex: And, really I’m not interested in that $3,500 a month
retainer or $5,000 a month retainer. That’s peanuts compared to the
amount of money that I can make from a piece of the business. I
want someone that’s really going to implement, hit the ground
running, and I tell them about my other successes, my experience. I
explain myself to them. And, I practice myself as someone who knows
what they’re doing, get results with them fast, and is deeply
committed in a partnership with them to anyone he works with.

Michael: So, that’s good. So, you really qualify them.  You let
them know that you’re not interested in working with them unless
they’re going to do the program, that you’re partners because you
have a stake in the contingency part of the relationship.

Alex: That’s right, and also I’m discounting my time because at
this point in my career, I’m making over a thousand dollars an hour
for my time spent on any given deal. For me, $3,500 a month is
peanuts for spending 20 hours a week with someone.

When you’re really – this kind of deal, I spend 20 hours a week,
when you’re starting you’re doing 20 hours a week. Not 20 hours a
week, I’m sorry, 20 hours a month.

Michael: All right. Well, let’s talk about what kind of advice
would you give an HMA consultant who maybe doesn’t have all the
success stories and the consulting experience and they’re starting
cold, but you give them advice to go with a niche.

Alex: Everyone knows something about a particular industry. I mean,
just think about the things you know about. Think about the
experiences you’ve had. Maybe your former job you had, or the job
you currently have is within a particular industry and you know
everything about that industry. That would be a great place to

You can go back to your previous employer. You can go to a
competitor business. You start putting together marketing materials
that you think is going to work and really help them make business.
Then, hopefully you have some contacts somewhere in there and you
go for a really low retainer. You just want to get experience.
That’s the way to start your consulting business until you get
success under your belt.

You’ve accomplished something. You’re going to have a learning
curve that you need to help others, and you’ve got to really think
about honing your craft initially.

Michael: Right.

Alex: Don’t take on any client. Be selective, but at the same time
don’t be demanding.

Michael: So, let’s go through a couple of success stories with
chiropractor clients.

Alex: Well, for example, it’s really easy to triple a practice
within the first two to three weeks. So, you can see if I’m getting
a good percentage of that and how easy it is to make money. It’s
really easy to create passive income real quick.

Michael: What’s the low hanging fruit? The customer list where you
reactivate old existing customers?

Alex: No, the lowest hanging fruit is actually on the average sale,
and the conversion ratio, and referrals.

Michael: Okay, and you can implement those things right away.

Alex: Yeah, I mean it’s really easy to go through. Whatever
industry you’re in, I’ll tell you what everyone else does. I’ll
tell you what the most successful auto repair shop does, and take
that and see how it works, why it works, and then just what you
know about marketing, enhance that. Then, just coach and work with
that shop to increase their conversion ratio and also to increase
their average sale. It’s really easy to double up a chiropractor’s
average sale overnight and also to double their conversion ratio.

Michael: Tell me the responses you get from your clients when you
do that.

Alex: Initially it was when we’d get started, I’d show them the MYM
System, and where to spend a bunch of advertising to get a bunch of
leads, but generally they’re thrilled and a lot of times they don’t
even realize how much their business has increased until they start
getting collections in from their insurance company.

Michael: Okay, you’re doing similar stuff with the mortgage

Alex: Yeah, in fact, in the mortgage industry, I have several
clients and basically I was tired of getting more mortgage than
realtor clients, so I decided to actually put together a federation
of different people within this industry. It goes to moving
companies, lawyers who do the closings, and where I’m the hub of
that wheel. And, only working with people that qualify or the
prospects that I’m going after, the target market that I’m going
after, and they pay a monthly fee to receive leads and then we
target the network. They’re all there to be served by this network.

Michael: Do you offer any kind of guarantee with your customers?

Alex: In the mortgage and realtor industry, yes.

Michael: What kind of guarantee?

Alex: Well, that they’re going to get X amount of leads.

Michael: Okay, and what about with chiropractor?

Alex: No, I don’t have to.

Michael: Okay, what kind of agreement do you sign? Do you have a
standard contract an attorney drew up or what?

Alex: This is the key. The first month I always kind of do it on a
handshake and see how well we work together because I’m not
interested in spending much of my time with someone if they’re not
going to implement the kind of advice I give them, and also I want
to make sure they’re comfortable working with me because this is a
perpetual lifetime kind of agreement.

Before we sign that kind of agreement, I want to make sure that
we’re going to be happy with each other. Before we get married,
let’s date a little bit, and a move into a perpetual agreement and
then get an offer to buy me out after the first year.

The key is the first month I make sure they get results. I make
sure they get results right away so that they’re comfortable
entering into that kind of relationship. I’m completely results
oriented to begin with, but even more so in that first month. They
have the fee to return on that retainer right away.

Michael: Have you had anyone buy you out yet?

Alex: No, because I haven’t had them long enough yet.

Michael: Is that something that you’ve implemented in the last few

Alex: The past year.

Michael: Over the past year, okay. Do you find they’re staying with
you longer? Do they renew another six months?

Alex: There is no renewal.

Michael: Oh, it is perpetual. That’s right. It’s a six month

Alex: Right.

Michael: What happens in month seven? More retainer or no?

Alex: No retainer and it’s a straight contingency at that point.

Michael: Okay, I got you, but you’re not seeing them near as much.
The systems are in place.

Alex: That’s right. You know, that’s not true. You see them at
least an hour or two a week. I’m constantly looking at ways to
increase their business. I take that information and apply it to
other people’s within my industry.

Michael: How full is your schedule? Are you pretty busy?

Alex: Extremely.

Michael: You’re extremely busy.

Alex: Yes.

Michael: Do you have any other exciting success stories you want to
talk about? Anything specific that you’d like to share?

Alex: Yeah, I’ve had a lot of successes, and one of the things that
you can make a lot of money in this industry, and the easiest thing
to do is every monumental overnight success comes from not trying
to implement new, but from just optimizing what they’ve already

For example, the printing company, the first client I ever got.
I’ve had for several years now. Initially, we tried to implement
the MYM System. It did pay for itself. It paid for the retainer,
but it didn’t really get the monumental success that we all thought
it would. In sense it doesn’t work, it’s just because they had a
hard time managing it. It was too cumbersome. It was too different
from what they were used to.

Finally, we were just like, “You know what? Let’s just take a look
at what you’re doing, and optimize that.” So, we went to their
sales people, and talked to the sales manager and figured out,
“First of all, we need to incentivize that you will actually get
new clients.” We generated a lot of prospects. The constraint in
the old system, you’re only going to be as fast as your fastest
constraint within a system, and let’s just tweak this. Let’s change
this. Right there, a 35 percent  increase of sales in two months.

But, that’s the kind of thing you can do, and that’s one thing
that I was impressed about your system is the fact that you are
focusing initially on what they’re already doing and optimizing.
You’re going to get your biggest windfalls from that, not from
implementing something new.

One of the things is as a marketing consultant, it’s really easy
to get enamored with these ideas of making a lot of money, and you
certainly can, but if you don’t really love the human mind, and you
don’t really love what you’re doing, your chances of success go
down dramatically. If you don’t have passion for marketing, again,
you’re not going to get the results that you could. It’s like
passion is an intelligence amplifier.

Michael: What are some tools and some systems that you’ve put into
place whether it’s software or anything within your office that
you’re able to leverage your time now that you’ve been busier? I
mean, I know I am and I’m constantly looking for ways. I finally
got something that eliminates all my spam. I mean, you know how
much time it takes to go through your spam. Any neat systems that
you use, any tools that you use within your business that help give
you an edge?

Alex: Well, actually I’ve reduced the number of tools. So, you can
imagine. I’m a gadget guy. I grew up on computers. Everything I do
was digital for so long, and I found that to be cumbersome. I’d go
to my meeting, release documents and like.

Michael: What is that a website?

Alex: Go to my meeting is a service whereby you can have a virtual
meeting over the web and it’s only costs fifteen bucks a month.

Michael: That’s nice. What’s the website URL?

Alex: Gotomeeting.com.

Michael: Gotomeeting.com, okay, that sounds nice.

Alex: Yeah, and it’s a really good tool for interacting with people
if you can’t make it. It’s something that I do with a lot of
chiropractors. I really love to see their operations because
there’s so many different points of impression that you make on a
patient right there physically.

I also have several retail operations that are clients of mine,
and I have to get a sense of what the physical experience is like.
I have the mortgage companies and real estate agents and that kind
of stuff. I can do it remotely pretty well.

Michael: Hey, you’re going to love – I’ve got a recording up. I’ll
send you the recordings with Dr. Greg Nielson. Have you heard of
him? He’s a Dan Kennedy student, and he’s specifically a
chiropractor and he’s got a system that’s a soap opera letter
system that he uses. It’s phenomenal. You’ll hear the recording of
how one of his letters, and he sells the letters, but I did an
interview with him on his chiropractic business. Actually, the
recording I have in the University section. I did cut a lot of the
history out about how he works with patients, but I do have the
full version of that. I think that will be particularly perfect for
you to listen to. I’ll give you the unedited version where you can
hear his system as operating a chiropractic business, very
successful in a very, very small town using a system of soap opera
letters. It’s phenomenal.

To download this mp3 go to


Alex: And, this kind of leads into a piece of advice I can give
your consultants is that never think that you have all the answers.
I’ve increased chiropractic offices with a 1,000 percent in sales
inside of a year, yet I definitely know I don’t have all the
answers of that market because the human mind is so fast and so
unpredictable and so fascinating that you could never have the
perfect system.  It’s an example of whereby you always want to be
looking for new approaches that might be more envisioned, something
else you can add to increase your clients’ sales.

Michael: I wanted to get back to something because the HMA system,
we talk about contingency, but not at first. We talk about selling
it per project, and there’s seven different projects you can sell,
but because you’re qualifying so well, have you had any problems
with contingency relationships where the six months are gone and
then you’re in a position.

Alex: First of all you only wanted to do business with people you
trust. Second, you want to get them in a habit whereby you are
reviewing their books with them on a monthly basis at least. You
want to start doing that upfront. So, if they have that expectation
and they know that they’re going to have the check quarterly, or
they’re going to have to do some real creative cooking of the
books. In which case, it would be real easy for you to check that
because you’re familiar with their numbers.

Michael: When is the first time you review their books?

Alex: Right before I sign the agreement.

Michael: Do they have an accountant they’ll refer to you? They
usually do it themselves or what?

Alex: It really depends. I’ve only had to talk to the accountant
once. Some people just really don’t know, but most chiropractors
know what they’re doing.

Michael: Number one – get them in the habit that you’re going to
review their books and you’re going to do it monthly because you’re
partners and that’s part of the agreement, right?

Alex: That’s right.

Michael: And, number two, make sure that you trust them and feel
good about them and you shouldn’t have any problems.

Alex: That being said, I know that I’m probably have several
chiropractors that are going to have the opportunity to buy me out
within the next two months, and I’m pretty sure they’re going to do

Michael: So, tell me, what can a buyout mean for you? How have you
structure that offer in the agreement?

Alex: You want to have the buyout be based on the have industry
evaluations for their industry, basically. For example, a typical
chiropractor, if they’re going to sell their firm is one times
revenue roughly. If they make a million dollars a year, they can
sell that for a million dollars. Basically, I get X percent of what
that increased evaluation. The part of the evaluation that I’m
responsible for, I get X percent of that.

Michael: So, give me an example.  You’ve got a couple of potential,
what could that mean for you?

Alex: It could mean I’m making several hundred thousand dollars.

Michael: And, then they own the systems and everything? That would
be exciting. That’s great. How do you come up with a baseline?

Alex: Baseline is what I do is I take a look at their sales and
tax, and I take a look at what their natural growth is. You always
want to give them a little more than what they would just to make
them feel good about it, just to be fair, a little bit more than
what they’re already doing is baseline.

Michael: And, you both agree on the baseline.

Alex: That’s right.

Michael: This has been great. I’m sure we can sit here and talk for
hours. I really appreciate you taking the time. I’m getting a lot
of great, great insight. I really appreciate it.

Alex: To all the HMA consultants, I wish you the greatest of luck,
and remember to follow your own definition of success instead of
someone else’s.

I hope you’ve enjoyed this interview with Alex Whiting. We’ve
covered a lot of information. I hope you’ll take his advice and
listen to it closely. Alex has been in the consulting business for
a long time, and certainly he shares some extremely valuable
information. I hope it’s been helpful. Keep an eye out for new
recordings on the HMA University.

Go to


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Michael Senoff

About the Author

Michael Senoff is the CEO and publisher of

The world’s leading free digital audio business library.

Michael is an experienced Internet marketer and talk show host and
a popular professional interviewer. Michael has taught 100% on line
around the country & around the world to more than 50,000 students.

His over-the-top on line audio interview web site
http://www.hardtofindseminars.com is listed in the top 1% of most
visited web sites in the world.

Michael has also worked as a coach and adviser to other famous
marketing consultants.

Michael is a husband and father of two young boys in Southern
California. He has a successful audio publishing business. Michael
is originally from Atlanta Georgia and is now based in San Diego,
California. Michael works with small to medium sized companies on
four different continents.

He is the author of the book: “TALK YOURSELF RICH”: (86 of the most
revealing, proprietary secrets on the subject of how to make more
money with audio interviews and the soon to be released sequel:
AUDIO MARKETING SECRETS. How To Make Your Own Information Product
Using Audio Interviews.  Michael may be contacted at
Michael@michaelsenoff.com or at (858) 274-7851

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