Michael: Calling into 1,000 plus employee companies, getting to all the gate keepers, all that stuff you can imagine with companies of that size. Getting the CEO the company to pick up the phone and then agree to me to represent all those other companies that they can never heard of, working just 12 hours a week, I was averaging more than five appointments in that level every single week.

Music

Hi. It’s Michael Senoff with Michael Senoff’s www.hardtofindseminars.com. Even though cold calling can be a valuable marketing tool just like any other, if it’s not done correctly, it can be a huge waste of time. So in this audio, you’ll need cold calling expert, Scott Channell. Scott’s going to tell you how to revamp your cold calling process so that you’re eliminating drudgery, spending less time on the phone and landing more appointments. And Scott knows what he’s talking about using his cold calling techniques, he’s set up more than 2,000 appointments with CEOs of large corporations and according to him, it doesn’t matter what industry you’re in, the principle of effective cold calling applies everywhere. Here are some of the things you’re going to learn in this interview. Why making too many phone calls if the biggest mistake you can make when cold calling? How conducting simple research in creating client profiles can help you weed through your phone list and reduce rejection. Why you need a contact manager? How to effectively use one and where to find the best and cheapest? Why you always need to use a script when cold calling and how to create attention-grabbing ones that jump right to the point. Why you should never start a phone conversation with “How are you doing?” or “Is this a good time?” and what you should be saying instead. What to do if someone gives you the brush off and tells you this isn’t a good time or why don’t you send me some information? How do we have effective voice mails and avoid being just another deleted message? This hour on audio is a comprehensive guide to productive cold calling. You should be able to take the techniques you learn from this interview and apply them simply to your HMA practice. So if you’re having trouble cold calling, or you just aren’t sure if you’re doing it right, this is the interview for you. Scott’s proven techniques have landed million-dollar accounts for his companies and if you’ve followed his advice, it won’t be long before you’re turning your cold-calls into hot prospects. Now, let’s get going.

Michael: Scott, thanks for taking the time to talk to me today and on behalf of all my HMA marketing consultants around the world and I think we’re going to have some valuable time here based on your experience in setting up appointments by using what I think is one of the most powerful tools out there for doing that and that is the good old telephone, just like we’re using right now. I want to talk a little bit about your history, why should we listen to you? Tell me a little bit about your experience actually, in the trenches, doing cold-calls, setting up appointments?

Scott: I have personally set more than 2,000 CEO level sales appointments with executive level VPs or CEOs at companies that typically were very large. So when I first started doing this, by accident I might add, I was calling into large companies with a 1,000 or more employees and setting appointments with executive level VPs and CEOs. And I’ve set up a system that was able consistently to get this people on the phone and then sell them immediately, so to speak, that the sales people would then go out onto. And then, over the course of many years, I actually sat in the cube smiling, and dialing myself across many different industries and was able to consistently set high level sales appointments for big ticket items for sales people. So all of my system is real world experiences based upon smiling entirely in the cube whether they was an onion and a meatloaf or not, depended upon how many appointments I set that peak. So, it’s all real world date. It’s not the world that I wish it was, it’s the world as it is. It’s far as setting sales appointments.


Michael: Yeah, let me ask you, when you first started smiling and dialing, was that something you were enthusiastic about, or did you hate it?

Scott: It was a challenge. It was one of the very few periods of time in my life where I actually had a paycheck for a period of time. Had seen an ad for a company that needed an appointment setter and even though I have never done that, so was the company that was selling into, you know larger companies, a thousand plus employees had a six-person national sales team, kind of a boutique firm, they could do great when they got in front of the right person and they could sell and the sales was typically a quarter of a million, half a million made to all plus type sales but their challenge like many people who are challenged, was getting in front of the right people.

Michael: What were they selling?


Scott: It was employee relocation.

Michael: What does that mean? I’m just curious.

Scott: It has to mean that it has a lot of employees that move in the executive firm to New York to Singapore. They would manage that whole process. And then having been self-employed my whole life went back into training and helping companies to market and the reason I was doing the job is getting divorced at that time, so it was nice just to have a home base for a period of time. Started months for things to settle down, you know I went back to being self-employed and what I did for about 10 years was essentially with many different companies do contract work where I would actually set up their appointment setting programs or set the appointments for them, all very, very high-level. Now that example I gave you, that first year, I set up a system with a set more than 500 key level appointments within a year. And one of the more notable gigs that I did was a mid-level consulting company. In many other companies are selling something that’s intangible, and even if you have a hard product today, the system and the customization that comes in and there’s a lot of intangibles into anything that we sell, but one of the more notable gigs I did was for a consulting company that found when they could start their sales process with the CEO, that their sales conversion was six times greater than if they started even if the executive VP level. So, calling into 1,000 plus employee companies, getting to all the gatekeepers, all that stuff you can imagine with companies of that size. Getting the CEO of the company to pick up the phone and then agree to meet a representative of a company that they had never heard of. Working just 12 hours a week, I was averaging more than five appointments at that level every single week on one of my gigs. So, over the years I’ve fine tuned it and worked a process that works across industries, you know, one of the mistakes that people make when it comes to appointment setting is they think that they’re different. They have to learn consulting, if they’re in manufacturing, if they’re in professional services, just doing biotech. One of the first things out here, I know what you set a lot of appointments, but we’re different. Well, that’s ridiculous. And I can say point-blank that the system that gets you appointments is the same system whether you’re in manufacturing, biotech, professional services, the system works across industries and there’s not a different appointment setting system for consulting companies versus manufacturing companies versus biotech companies.

Michael: Is cold calling dead today?

Scott: Cold calling for appointments is a marketing tool like any other. Meaning, that if you use it in the right places, you use it the right way, you get results. If you use it inappropriately, if you don’t know how to use it, if you use it in the wrong places, you’re going to bang your head against the wall and waste your money. Just like people do with mailings or advertisings or so forth. So, it’s a marketing tool like any other and I’m sure all of us, I mean, I’d certainly deal with many, many companies that pool sales prospects, is structured around that initial cold call into companies to get phase to stays. And even among companies, that it’s not one of your core strategies. It’s still a major strategy, as far as getting in contact with potentially larger accounts. When all else fails, you have to know how to pick up a phone and get the job done. So it’s certainly not dead, whether its right for you or it is right for you whether you’re doing the right things, that’s another question but it’s certainly very much alive now.

Michael: I want to talk about some of the biggest mistakes that people are making when this starting cold calling, but first, I want you to tell me about the success story where you did a cold call, that resulted in a million-dollar sale.

Scott: This is the first million dollar sale. I cold called, just like I did to anyone else, to a company that was doing a couple of billion dollars worth of sales.

Michael: What service were you selling at that time?

Scott: This was the employee relocation company. The first million dollar sale came from the first gig that I did, an appointment setting back in 1994. And it was kind of an interesting story, started the process of setting the appointment was no different. Meaning, called into the companies, identified the decision maker, used a sequenced process of calls to maximize the chance of that decision maker’s actually going to pick up the phone, and when they did pick up the phone, I’ve been 30 seconds communicated who I was, what I did, why I was credible, the three biggest benefits I’ve delivered in exactly what I want. And they said, yes. And then, what was kind of interesting, this company was up in Maine. And the sales guys didn’t want to drive to Maine to take the appointment because it was out of their way. So the sales manager had to go. So the sales manager goes and he calls me up coming to ask me to appoint me, he says, “Scott, if I had a contract with my pocket, it would have been signed right then and there.” And then he went back three weeks later and a million-dollar plus deal was signed. It was the right company at the right time, with the right person with the right service mix and I still have the plaque and since so many people in the company thought that cold calling was a waste of time and he actually wrote, it’s in my book, Scott impossible. And across the sign service agreement for a million bucks.

Michael: Let’s get into some of the biggest mistakes that you’ve seen over the years of that people are making.

Scott: The number one mistake which I find to be so ridiculous and I can’t tell you how many times I see this over and over again and it amazes me. People get so frustrated by calling and yet, point blank the number one reason why people fail to make appointments is they make too many phone calls they shouldn’t have made in the first place. Meaning, people get into this thing about not wanting to miss anybody, which is stupid. I hate -- and what they end up doing is watering down the list of people they should be calling and casting the net so wide that literally I can’t tell you how many people I’ve worked with 60 or 70 or 80% of their calls never should have been made in the first place.

Michael: Are you talking about that first call or chasing calls in

Scott: Called in. Meaning, in terms of the pool of people that you call, you’ve got limited time, you’ve got limited money, you need to get certain results why people choose to call a very low possibility or no possibility pool of prospects when they could spend 100% of their time calling into a very high probability pool of prospects is beyond it and typically what I see is not a situation where people don’t have enough people to call. So what it is, they don’t define who they should be calling well enough and I find that it typically takes about an hour to do basic research based upon their current client base or the best clients they would like to have. What you do is you build a profile with this people, people who have bought from you before, people who are known clients of your competitors that you would like to have. You do some research on them and then you build a profile, in terms of SIC code revenue range and so forth. And then you call obviously, the people who look like those who’ve already bought from you. And the biggest mistake that people make is they don’t do that research, which boggles me because if people are on the phone, if they’re spending five hours a week, 10 hours a week, 15 hours a week, prospecting and banging their heads against the wall and getting no results or little results for it, why they don’t spend one or two hours once to make sure that a 100% of their efforts is in a very high probability zone just escapes me. So the biggest mistake they make is they call the wrong people.

The second biggest mistake is, they have no system, meaning, they’re not using a contact manager which is ridiculous. I mean, you wouldn’t go swimming and tie cinderblocks around your ankles. But people who are prospecting or seeking to set appointments who are working on paper systems or using spreadsheets, you might as well just walk your legs off right now, in terms of productivity, because by your own actions, you simply can’t work efficiently enough in order to get the results you seek.


Michael: For more exclusive interviews on business, marketing, advertising and copyrighting, go to Michael Senoff’s www.hardtofindseminars.com

Can you make a recommendation for a reasonably priced contact manager system?

Scott: The three majors of the ones you want to stick with. I mean with GoldMine, there’s Act or there’s Maximizer. They’re all under $200 for an individual user. You need to use a contact manager, there are no ifs and or buts about it. And if you’re using paper and you’re not using a contact manager, the probability that you’ll be successful is very, very low. For two reasons. A, you can’t call efficiently enough to reasonably expect to reach your goal, but also in terms of the more advanced strategy, you know, when I first started calling, it was all about getting people on the phone, and they either agreed to meet or the didn’t and that was about it. But, it took me a couple of years to realize that most of my clients, they were selling something that wasn’t purchased all the time. It was usually a major product, the higher ticket item, something that people either purchased infrequently or only with a few vendors every couple of years. So the benefit of calling, and don’t get me wrong. You need to set all the appointments you can upfront, that are your driver. But, let’s face it, even if you’re doing everything right, you’re going to speak to a lot of people who aren’t going to meet with you or who it isn’t the right time to meet with you, but could very well end up buying from a competitor within 12-18 months. So, a big part of -- the value of calling, is to get recon data on the companies that you’re calling, in terms of their potential work to you and flooding them for follow up, so that you can follow up at the right time or you might use insulary marketing message, using the information you’ve gathered to your call process, whether you get the initial reading or not. And you can really significantly increase the value you get from your calling about the appointments if you’re using a contact manager with some customized fields and data gathering that is going to be very helpful to you in using insulary marketing methods so that you really can lift the value you get from your calls.

Michael: Yeah, that makes sense. You know, when reading your book, I saw your slotting[ph] method, how you categorize each call, hot, very hot all the way down to not very hot and that’s brilliant. Let’s talk about another mistake.

Scott: They don’t have scripts. Or, if they have scripts, the scripts stink. I hate it. And one of the things that people need to understand, and here’s one of the mistakes they make. They confuse having a script with delivering it poorly. They’re two totally different things. Meaning, that the right words that you use to accomplish your business objective is very, very different than how you deliver them. And a lot of people say, “Ah, I hate scripts. I don’t want to sound like I’m reading. I hate it when people call me and they sound scripted. I don’t want to do that. I’m going to wing it.” And you know, I say to them, “Are you kidding me? You’re going to call high-leveled people to buy a big ticket item for you and you think within a few seconds that you’re going to free form something that’s different every time that’s going to accomplish your business objective? Are you kidding me? People who are effective at appointment setting spend time writing out the words. To me, scripting is just about free thinking out the best words to use. The most powerful words, the most impactful words to use to accomplish your business objective. And when you write them down, you can then say that, “Ah, you know what, I’m trying to communicate credibility here, there’s another way I can phrase it, that’s more powerful. I use nine words to make this point, but if I rephrase it, I can cut the chances to six words. Or I hate these three benefits that I’m mentioning, I want to put a more powerful benefit into it. Hey, there are five words in there that I can do without. That’s going to cut the time it takes for me to make the point. So, people who don’t want to write scripts, I find our true loops and if it takes in 80 seconds to say something that they can say in 30, guess what? People aren’t listening to it when they’re gone. So, either they don’t use scripts or if they do use scripts, the scripts are really bad and it’s here to a lot of old wives tales that I just find that people it’s here to on the phone that I find a totally ineffective in terms of getting results for a big ticket appointment selling.

Michael: All right. What do you think are the key principles to succeeding with setting appointments thru cold calling?

Scott: I think it’s very, very important that if people are going to set appointments that they have a big picture of you, of what they’re trying to do, in the sense that you’re going to research and select a pool of target that you feel, based upon research, not guessing hopefulness, contains a certain number of people who are likely to buy your product or service within a reasonable period of time. So, let’s say, theoretically that you have a group of a hundred targets. Now I find that as a rule of thumb that given a reasonably qualified list that following a process that I can schedule appointments with 10 out of the 100. So big picture, one of the first things to realize is the key principle is that in any group that we target, there are only so many within that group who are reachable and whom, when we reach them would agree to our offers. Let me guess.

Michael: All right.

Scott: So like, if you realize that, then there are a couple other things that you have to realize. And this is another mistake that people make. Is that if you agree with that, okay, I’m going to call the group and it’s a good group and there’s only so many in that group I’m going to reach a few that will agree to my offer. Well, as I set appointments -- say I set appointment number 8, number 9, if I know statistically that I’m setting -- had appointments out of every group of a hundred, when I’m setting appointment number 7, number 8, number 9 out of that group, I don’t have to say to myself, wait a minute. Am I better off to continue the call 91 and 92 records, looking for one or two meetings that I know are probably there? Or am I better to call a new group of a hundred in which I know that they’re attending? And it leads us into the point of knowing what you’re point of diminishing returns is. So if you accept this -- there’s only so many that you can set appointments with in a group, then you also must accept that once you find them, you have to stop calling the rest. There is a point of diminishing return and I find more -- it’s a big mistake that people make is that they feel like, oh, I don’t want to give up, so they call the leftovers endlessly and then wonder why they are frustrated in not setting appointments. So, you need to know what your point of diminishing return is and then let go of the point of diminishing return so you can create room for fresh records to come in which you know statistically are going to have a certain number of appointments within them.

Michael: Any other key principles?

Scott: You need to work a system. People love to talk about scripts. People are always calling me, “We need a script! Order me a script” and I remind people that good scripts only help you, you know, only worth something to you if you’re reaching the right people in enough of them. So they have great scripts, but they have no conversations with high leveled targeted decision makers do you no good whatsoever. But what’s going to deliver those conversations to you is your system and people don’t pay much attention to their process of calls. How they’re set up or how they organize themselves for calling to deliver up those conversations in sufficient qualities so that their great scripts convert to a meeting which would then convert to a sale where it makes it all economical.

Michael: Do they now have some kind of predictive dialing systems built into that software where it does the calling automatically?

Scott: But most of them will do the dialing for you. So, for example, I happen to use GoldMine, which I like and I press a button and it dials a phone.

Michael: So you’re not sitting there, just dialing a phone?

Scott: No. One of the things about the system and that’s a great question, is you want to rip out the drudgery and certainly dialing the phone is drudgery. And if you’re physically dialing the phone and then you put the headset on your shoulder and trying to talk to people and tied to the same time. You’re working very, very inefficiently and I teach it but I don’t love to cold call. But because I’ve ripped out most of the crap from the system, I know that when I sit down, that I can move very efficiently and there’s always a positive business result in doing stuff. And that’s why we do it. I know various people who love to cold call. If you know you’re working a system, then you get results and you can take a deep breath and say, “Okay. I’m going to work in the system 90 minutes a day and I’m going to get a very positive business report.”

Michael: It does make sense because if you’re dialing the phone maybe you’re not using software and you’ve got paper that is painful. So I can see you sitting down, you got a headset, you’ve got your GoldMine open -- you entered your phone numbers in your data, into your database and I just click on the button.

Scott: Delivered up to you in the book I described --

Michael: Don’t --

Scott: -- basically simple systems of organizing those records so that you’re constantly allocating your time appropriately.

Michael: Are your scripts sitting in front of you on GoldMine?

Scott: No, no.

Michael: Okay.

Scott: You take the scripts and put them all in one sheet of paper and then post them right in front of me for references and so you have your course scripts that we use. And then, of course, you might be very a script construction method that works for you to be a little bit specific. So, if I was calling manufacturing companies, I might set it up one-way but maybe if I was calling a biotech company, I would describe my credibility a slightly different way or I might use different examples as far as benefits or phrases things that you might have slight variations from your master script, if I might put it that way, based upon certain industries or situations that you’re calling, so I would just stick it on one sheet of paper and stick it in front of me for easy reference.

Michael: Okay. Why don’t you tell the number one reason people aren’t able to set these appointments?

Scott: We don’t give them enough reason to meet with us. That’s the number one reason why we don’t have more attendance. People have to make a distinction, Michael, between selling their products and service and selling the meeting. And it’s very important distinction to make because a lot of times what people do is, they’re more focused on selling their product or service and that doesn’t communicate why somebody should meet when you are delivering what I call a set the appointment pitch. You need to communicate value, such that someone could say, “You know what? I don’t want to ever do business with this company.” But I think it would be worth me to spend 30 or 45 minutes with this representative.

Michael: So there’s confusion. People say they need to sell consulting services where the purpose here isn’t to sell your consulting service -- it’s to sell an appointment, correct?

Scott: The appointment. It’s always the value equation. Meaning, if you’re asking someone to give you 30, 45 minutes or 60 minutes of their time, what you -- they get all that meeting, Michael, that’s worth 30, 45 or 60 minutes of a very top-level executives time. And you need to communicate the value so you get to imagine the person you’re speaking to saying, “Is this worth 30, 45, or 60 minutes of my time?” And you call them up and saying, “You know what? We’re great. We’re swell. We do great work. We care for our clients. And I’d like to get together with you and find out about what you’re doing and whether we might be a good assist to you and see how we might help you. You know what? That is not as powerful. As you’re saying, this is a decision maker, this is what we do, this are the types of businesses that we work with, they work with us because they get benefits A, B,C, and D and I’d like to meet with you and talk about some specific examples of how companies have achieved these objectives. Do you have some time?

Michael: You know, what’s in it for me?

Scott: What’s in this for me? And it has to be specific. Specific benefits, specific credibility statements. Think of it this way. What reason are you communicating that would be worth a top-level executive investing 30 or 45 minutes or 60 minutes of time, when I would have hit roadblocks, which you do hit roadblocks when you call? And I had hit spots and it wasn’t happening the way -- I would always sit back and say, “Well, wait a minute. What am I communicating as far as values.” And it’s not about personality, it’s not about anything other than the value. Focus on the value exchange and communicating a value message that’s perceived well and you’re going to get appointments. If you’re not getting appointments, most of the time when you think about what you’re saying, you’re just not communicating enough value so that it’s worthwhile for a top-level person to meet with you.

Michael: That makes sense. Let’s talk some more about scripting.

Scott: When we talked about scripting, I would give this piece of advice and you got to listen on this a bit, because it’s turn to it. Focus only on the people that has a need that you can fulfill. Forget everybody else. Meaning, when I called Michael, I had a fear and it should be this fear then anybody who’s looking to set appointments. My fear was that I dial, dial, dial, dial, dial, dial, dial, dial, dial, dial, dial, dial and then I get somebody on the end of the line, who I’ve identified as the top-level decision maker and goes, “Hello?” And in that second, they have a need that the company I’m working for can fulfill. And I don’t know that. At the same time, the company I’m working for is a vendor that that person would love to have a long-term beneficial relationship with. And he/she doesn’t know that. And my fear was always that I would hear that hello and I would not communicate words that would give that person that has a need that I could fulfill what I call, “Cause for Pause.” Meaning, that if I start my conversation with, “Hi, how are you? Do you have some time? There’s something I want to talk to you about.” If that person had a need that I could fulfill, what information have I given them that indicates that I find to be worth more of your time? Nothing. so, my fear was always that that person who says hello was somebody that had a need that I could fulfill, the company that I was working for could fulfill. And I would not give them cause for pause. Meaning, I would not say something that would get them to set in their mark. Maybe I should spend a little more time with this person. So in terms of scripting, one of the old wives tale is that you want to get people talking and you don’t want to be pushy, which I don’t understand what pushy is, because one of the big mistakes that people make is they confuse being direct with being pushy and the top-level people I deal with, or whether they’ll be sales people or whether they’ll be decision-makers have no problem with you being direct. And making say yes or no. But a lot of people who aren’t successful feel that if they’re direct, somehow they’re being pushy and that’s a turn off. You have to be very direct. So in scripting, the time your basic hello, I always thought of it in terms of two steps. The first one was within a few seconds, I have to give that person cause for pause. If they had a need that I could fulfill, what am I saying that gets them to go, “Oh, maybe I should hang on a little bit more.” And that earns me additional seconds that I can then communicate specifically what the company is offering, why they’re credible, your three biggest benefits they deliver and what I want. And then, they can either say yes or no. I have no problem with yes, I have no problem with no. I have a big problem with maybe. So, when you get somebody on the phone, you’re not asking them, “Hi, how are you?” You’re not asking them if it’s a good time. You communicate in 30 seconds who you are, what you do, why you’re credible, the three biggest benefits you delivered and what you want from them. In my feeling, Michael, was if somebody had no need I can fulfill or if they weren’t interested, they could tell me after they knew who I was, what I did, why I was credible, the three biggest benefits I’d delivered in what I wanted. But my worry in focus was always on what if I was talking to somebody who had a need that I could fulfill? Would my words calculated to get the attention of that person to earn me more time on the phone and then eventually get the meeting. So a lot of people get into this idea of, you know, as a couple of people are rude to them or tell them take me off the list , don’t call me, they contort their process and they become less direct and that means that when they are speaking to somebody that has a need to be fulfilled, that their words are very watered down, so people start focusing on those who are never going to buy from them, which I think is ridiculous. Focus only on the people who could buy from you and making sure that you’re delivering the best message to them.

Michael: I’m sure there’s sales people out there who like to chase even the people who’s saying no, not interested. They try and call on back what’s your advice on that? Big waste of time?

Scott: Well, they get into this whole idea of responses to resist them. All right. So the common responses to resistance you get that we all come across are sense and information or we’re all set, we have a vendor we love or something like that. And one of the big picture things that I’ve learned in appointment setting is that, it’s not like people aren’t telling us the truth, but do you got to remember most of the time they don’t know us, we’re not credible in their eyes? So when people say send me some info, or call me back, we’re all set, those are kind of like meager responses and as appointment setters, one of the things that we have to do is to craft responses to those things, which accomplish two objectives. First of all, let’s take the sense and information objection. Michael, as an example, we know statistically most of the time when somebody says “send some information “ that it is a blow off. It is a blow off. It’s easier for them to say send some info rather than it is to say, “Don’t call me, I’m not interested, we have no need.” Here’s your problem. First of all, even if 9 out of 10 of those people are blow offs, it means that one out of 10 isn’t. You need a response that is calculated to separate or identify to you that one person out of 10 is a legitimate prospect. And that eliminates the possibly that you’re going to waste tremendous amounts of time following up on the nine of out 10 that I will blow off. This is how you do it. You know what, Mr. Prospect, we don’t send out general information because the general information we send out is just going to tell you what I just told you. We’re a large company, we’ve been doing this for 15 years, clients like A, B and C use us because they get benefits one, two, three, four and five, but I’ll tell you, if you have a specific need or issues, I would be happy to put together a specific package fee that would be generally helpful for you. Do you have any specific information that I could put together for you? That’s just a couple of things, Michael. First of all, we’re not letting other people control where we go. Meaning, when someone says send me some info and you go, “Okay,” you are a wimp, go out and buy the T-shirt and because you’re a official wimp, then you are doomed to wait tons and tons on the phone, and it’s your own fault. It’s not their fault, it’s your fault, because you agreed to do something, you gave the person that you called control over your time. You never give who you call, control over your time. You decide based upon solid information how you’re going to allocate your time. If someone comes back from that decision, you know what, I don’t really have anything specific, you say, “You know what? Fine. It doesn’t sound like it would be mutually advantageous.” Because remember, you’re selling it at a high level. You’re important too. And just because they want you to jump through a hoop of fire don’t mean you’re going to do it. And you aren’t even going to do it if it’s mutually advantageous. So you say you know what? It doesn’t sound like maybe this is the time, but you know, we obviously do an awful lot of this. Could you suggest the time when it would be more appropriate for me to be back in touch with you? And then people will tell you. They’ll say, “You know, call me in a year. Don’t call me. Call me in six months.” And you know what’s shocking? How many people will say to you, “You know what? Call me in two weeks.” And you’re, “Okay. Happy to do that, next prospect, can you tell me why it’s a good time for me to call you in two weeks?” “Well, yeah, because we’re finishing up quarter end and we get a new CEO coming in and this is a major issue, it would be a great time to talk to you.” “Oh, okay.” So, always ask why, it’s good for direction and then why it’s an important time, because it gives you information as to the potential work of the prospect field. Yeah, the part of that was, what if they say they have something specific in mind ? So, the nine out of 10 people, they’re going to say, “Well, I don’t have anything specific.” You’re going to say, “Fine. I don’t want to be on your back. Look, we do a lot of this, you’re going to reinforce your credibility and the benefits you offer. Could you suggest the time to be in touch?” “Sure. Call me in three months.” “Happy to do that. Is there any specific reason why that’s a good time?” “Yeah. This is the reason.” “Thank you very much.” Click. You now know how to swat that. But what if the person who says, “Well, you know what? Actually, we do have a couple of problems. I got this problem, I got that problem. I got this problem. There are ways you handle that is you say, “Oh really?” Ask a couple of open-ended questions. What’s happening? Why is that important to you? What’s the next step to that? Oh, you know, essentially what you do is, you’re going to rub salt and there’s a gaping wound that they just told you they have and then you let them talk about how important the issues are to them. Then you say this, “You know, we handle a number of companies with exactly those issues and I can think of a couple, my fellow representatives who have helped companies do exactly those issues and if I have enough opportunity to learn about more about the specific situation, I know that I could give you a number of options and strategies, that would be very helpful to you. In fact, I got some colleagues in Colorado who have worked on similar issues and once I knew more about your situation and what you wanted to accomplish, I know that I could gather specific information that would be very valuable to you. If that’s worthwhile, I’m happy to do it. I mean, I’m in your area next week, first day of Friday, would you happen to have some time. So what you do mean big picture is when somebody says sends an info, what are we trying to do? Who’s real, who’s never acts[ph].Hey, to those who would never acts, how do we allocate our time? We extract specific information from them which enables us to appropriately swat them. To those who are real, we ask a couple of open-ended questions, rub salt in the wound and then make them an offer that’s valuable. Hey, we’ve helped people through that. I skipped college, an essence you give them a reason to meet with you by saying, “If you meet with me, you could use the specific information I can deliver to you.” And if you do that, what are the odds of somebody saying, “You know what? That’s worth 45 or 60 minutes of my time.” It’s free, powerful stuff, because you’re now offering them specific information on a problem that you have extracted from them, that they have. Can they, in terms of the responses in the book that entails appointment is I give other models of how to respond to we’re all set, call me back and so forth, that follow the same big picture process. Who’s real, who’s never acts3924 and then convert the ones you can convert into it.


Michael: For more interviews like this, go to Michael Senoff’s www.hardtofindseminars.com

Yeah, I’m looking at these. These are great. We don’t have time for it, but they’re all in your book and they would fit perfectly for any of the HMA’s consultants or anyone trying to set appointments for selling, consulting services. I want to move on to the important topic. Gatekeepers. I’m sure when you’re calling on companies of this size, you’re always encountering gatekeepers. What are a couple, most effective way to get past the gatekeepers?

Scott: Actually, this is generous. I never really tried to get past gatekeepers, which might be surprising to people. I always worked around gatekeepers. When I work with a gatekeeper, there are two things that you can get from a gatekeeper and something that you want, which is connected to who you want to speak to usually isn’t going to happen. So, when you speak to a gatekeeper, what you can do, and you must stay focused on, are two objectives. One is, what information can I get that’s going to give me some clues as potential works of this account? Meaning, when you call in the company, some are worth a lot, some are worth little, some are going to buy now, some are going to buy later, some are going to buy high margin stuff, some are going to buy all margin stuff, and even if you can’t speak to the decision-maker, you can still get great recon information and gatekeepers are a great source for that recon information, in particularly a big picture on appointment setting, it’s remember that not everybody we call is worth the same. If you can’t get connected to your decision-maker, then what you want to do is improve the quality of the information you’re dealing with. And you do that by asking finely-tuned questions to gatekeepers which are kind of give you information as to whether they buy which offering, do they buy a lot, so that you know whether to call them more or whether to call them less.

Michael: Have you experienced you can get that information from them?

Scott: Absolutely. Absolutely. The second thing you want to do, and this sounds so stupid Michael, but it is so true, that a major factor and you’ve been able to have a conversation with your targeted decision maker, is your ability to get their direct dial or extension and one of the ways you get direct dials or extension numbers is working with gatekeepers. So, with gatekeepers, they are a source of great recon information in terms of the potential worth of the account, they are also a source of direct dial or extension numbers. And you have to become adept at knowing how to get that from them, so that when you follow-up, you can follow-up by calling the direct dial or extension numbers and in my book and in my CDs and so forth and in my tutorial, which is free by the way, which people would find at my settingsalesappointments.com website, is I go into some of the more advance strategies for getting direct dial and extension numbers and when you use a contact manager, how you can set filters and so forth, so that you can increase the number of conversations that you have. In appointment setting, one of the things that you need to do, is if you’re going to set appointments, you have to have conversations and you need to know the specific strategies that you use in order to have conversations in sufficient quantity to meet your appointments goal and one of the ways that you have those conversations is by becoming adept to getting direct dial and extension numbers and those you would get from gatekeepers.

Michael: Great advice. Let’s move on to voice mail. So let’s say we’re calling and we’re getting lots of voice mails. Do I leave a message and just hang on and move on to the next?

Scott: Well, voice mails are part of your touches. Meaning, that I’m a big believer in what I rule the rule seven, which means that people have to be touched by us numerous times before they start to understand what we’re offering, and when your appointment setting, and I did it years ago, there really was only voice mail and fax, as far as touches and in the process I unwind and before it can take a little different because now we get email and websites in the internet, but the basic concepts is the same. That when you call through, then you use a process, you’re going to leave a certain number of touches within a road of reconcentrated period of time and I always used to work what I would call free cycles of three. And at the end of each cycle, I would leave a voice mail and send a fax. So at the end of roughly a two-week calling period, someone had gotten three voice mail messages for me and gotten three faxes. So I’m pretty close to the rule seven and if they had a need for what I was offering, I could say, “You know, I’ve left a tick box voice mail and a great benefit laid and faxed to these people. They haven’t responded, I’ve called them numerous times, I think it’s time to move on. The twist on the voice mails that I believe in strongly is this. And think of it this way Michael. When people craft what they’re going to say on a voice mail, picture your prospect listening to their voice mail messages with their finger poised over the delete button. And what are you saying to people within a few seconds that’s going to earn you cause for pause? Which is going to keep that finger hovering over the delete button, okay, but they’re not going to trash it. And the big concept I would say here, which is a different way of thinking is that you put your name, your company and your phone number at the end. Meaning, you do not leave a voice mail message with, “Hi, this so-and-so from such-and-such company.” Delete. If somebody that had a need that you could fulfill, listen to that voice mail message. Your first few seconds has got to communicate to something. A fact, a result, a captivating question that’s going to keep that finger from hitting delete. And it’s going to earn you a few more seconds. This person doesn’t know you, know your company or what you are for what you do and when you do start a voice mail with, “Hi, this is Sally’s salesperson from Mega Industries”, you’re gone. You’re gone. So, you’ve got to start your voice mail by earning cause for pause and then having done that, leave your name, your company name and phone number at the end.

One of the other points that I’ve mentioned Michael, about appointment setting is what you measure, and very interestingly, I do not recommend that people measure dials. One of the things that people get into in particularly managers make a big mistake in measuring the dial activity of the appointment service. In my experiences, the best appointment setters do not make the most dials because they’re actually talking to people. Okay?

Michael: All right.

Scott: And seeing appointments. And once you’re within a reasonable range of dialing, you certainly have to be within a reasonable range of activity, don’t get me wrong, but this game is not about who can dial the phone the fastest. I mean, you’re not selling cell phones here.

Michael: All right.

Scott: You know, buy a cell phone? Want to buy a cell phone? It’s not about a dialing frenzy. It’s about working in an organized manner, dumping sufficient number of new leads into your funnel every week, working them methodically, it’s about having conversations so you measure how many people you dump into your funnel every week. You measure how many conversations you’ve had with those targets. And I define a conversation as somebody that you’ve identified into a decision maker, you deliver your 30 second set appointment pitch too, that’s a conversation, and how many appointments that you set. Those are the only things that you measure. The rest is superfluous.

Michael: Do you have, from your experience from all these years selling a higher end service like consulting services, some numbers that a new consultant who has no idea what the numbers would be could reasonably expect?

Scott: Yeah. My rule of thumb would be that if you’re going to call, say a hundred companies that on a lower level you want to be setting seven or eight appointments on a higher level, you might be setting 12.

Michael: Then of a 100, how many do you think you’re going to get in touch with the decision maker?

Scott: You might need to have four or five conversations in order to set an appointment.

Michael: With the saying decision?

Scott: No, no, with different ones.

Michael: So for every four or five you talk to, you may be able to get one appointment?

Scott: Correct. That’s the decent conversion rate among people who do not know you.

Michael: 25%.

Scott: So, out of the group, I would say one of 10 conversion of companies called to appointments, four or five conversations per appointment?

Michael: Ah huh.

Scott: Those would be my benchmark.

Michael: Yeah. That sounds about right. So, look, you said a lot more training and I know you offer a ton of free stuff on your website. For HMA consultants or students, listening from www.hardtofindseminars.com, where could they go to glean some more advice from you?

Scott: What they would do is go to appropriately, setting salesappointments.com. And here, they can opt in to a free tutorial, I have a 20 lesson tutorial in this topic where you get articles, you get script samples, you get model responses to resistance. I also have about three hours of audio they can listen to free, MP3s they can download and I also send them a free CD of some presentations I get which people feel they get a lot out of it.

Michael: That’s great. You know, I see a lot of marketers out there and you know, other than myself, I don’t see too many people giving so much free stuff away but certainly you do. And, you know, just by looking at all this stuff you give away and I’m sure you benefit from that by giving out that information.

Scott: It works. It just works.

Michael: Yeah. So if anyone listening, he really does give a lot of valuable free information on asset sales appointments and I’ll encourage anyone to definitely take advantage of that and he’ll even send out a CD and pay for the shipping, because I got one myself.

Scott: Great.

Michael: Scott, I appreciate it.

You’re listening to an interview on Michael Senoff’s www.hardtofindseminars.com.