Michael,

I am writing to let you know how thoroughly satisfied I am that I purchased the HMA program. You might recall that during our first conversation, I told you that I am a marketing consultant and that I was looking for an “out of the box” marketing seminar. I went on to tell you that I was looking for a resource to provide me with a marketing system.

I researched your product and several others. I spoke to a marketing consulting franchise system. I dug and I dug and I dug. I literally spent 60 hours on the internet researching. I called you so many times and asked you so many questions – I really tortured you because I was skeptical. Sorry about that, but I wanted to be sure I purchased the right product.

After comparing all the options, I decided to invest in your product. Here are my reasons:

Michael, I’ll be happy to speak with anyone who is interested in your program.

Sincerely,

Avery Manko

For more information about a systemized way to sell consulting services call 858-274-7851 or send me an e-mail and in the subject line write "Pink Toaster Agreement" and I'll send you to a link with more details. Please only request this after you have reviewed all of the recordings on this page.

Avery: No.

Michael: The difference is me. That’s the difference. You get me. You get me returning your calls two minutes after you leave a message. You get me taking time on the phone with you, which you probably won’t need help. You get my reputation online, all the assets and the tools and the contacts that I’ve had over the years. I mean, I’m action central when it comes to direct mail marketing, advertising, copywriters, all the people I’ve interviewed, everything that’s in my head.

When you become my customer, you become my goomba. You’ve paid me good money. I’m here for you. I help you out. If you need something, you ask me first. If you’re looking to save on other materials, it’s just all the resources, my site and everything that comes with it – that’s what you get with me.

Music

This is Michael Senoff with HardtoFindSeminars.com and Consulting Secrets. You know, I get a lot of calls about people asking me what it’s like, the consulting business, and asking me all kinds of questions other than the material mentioned at the Consulting Secrets section. Here is a series of recordings with a gentleman named Avery Manto, who is now an HMA consultant. Avery really did his homework before he called me, and you’ll notice in these calls how skeptical he is about this whole consulting business opportunity. He’s allowed me to present to you this series of recordings that started from the very first time calling me all the way up to the process of him choosing to become an HMA consultant. So, in this next recording, you will hear an ongoing series of calls that occurred between Avery and myself about the consulting opportunity. This will allow you to sit in like a fly on the wall hearing someone as skeptical as they come, interested in the consulting opportunity, and you’ll hear me giving my most compelling case of why he should become an HMA consultant, and finally to him making the decision to give it a go.

Avery: Do you have a couple minutes?

Michael: Yeah, I’ve got about five minutes. Your first name is what?

Avery: Avery.

Michael: Avery, okay. How can I help you?

Avery: I’m a marketing consultant in the Philadelphia area.

Michael: Are you trained under somebody?

Avery: No.

Michael: You just do your own thing.

Avery: I do my own thing. I’m a printer turned marketing consulting. What happened was some of my customers and clients started asking me to help them with their marketing, and the next thing you know, for the last five years I’m slowly turning into a marketing consultant. Right now, I’m ready to flip that switch and become a full-time marketing consultant.

The reason why I’m calling is I want to do some seminars, some workshops and I could probably write the materials myself, I just don’t have the time to do it. I was wondering if there’s some materials out there that I could buy, like an out of the box, off the shelf marketing seminar.

Michael: Yep, I train people how to be marketing consultants. Did you see any of that stuff on my site?

Avery: I saw a lot of that stuff on your site.

Michael: When you become and HMA consultant, you’ve got all that stuff to use as a consultant, and it’s all outlined, all scripted, PDFs, Word – it’s all right there.

Avery: I’ve been doing a little bit of research. I saw the Y2 thing that you had on. I thought that was a load of hooey when I first heard that a couple years ago, and what I think they did is just ripped of Jay Abraham and put it in a box.

Michael: So, you saw the Y2.

Avery: I looked at that Top Line. The fact is that I know I could do this all myself and I do do it myself. It’s just that I need a little structure – is a good way to put it, and I could tell you that my thing is that I go after small business owners who finally recognize that they have to do something. They have to market their business. They want to give it to their kids. They want to grow it. They want to buy a new house. There’s a reason why.

Then, the other part of that equation is that they’re tired of doing it themselves or hashing it to one of their employees who has no marketing experience whatsoever. They’re spending so much time juggling all these vendors, and they don’t know how to do all this stuff.

Since I’ve come from the tactical side, I’m the guy who’s like the ringleader, and I throw all that crap together.

Michael: Did you own your own printing company?

Avery: Yeah, I owned a screen printing business. I owned an offset printing business. I had an ad specialty business, but I still do all that stuff now. I used to say if it’s got ink on it, I sell it, and that’s still the case. But, really I don’t take on clients right now if they hire me to be their marketing department. I’m kind of double dipping.

Michael: That’s fine. How old are you?

Avery: Thirty-six. I’ll be 37 in a couple of months. I started this while I was at Penn State. I started in the screen printing business.

Michael: How do you charge your clients? Give me an idea.

Avery: Right now, there’s three ways I charge clients. It’s all based on an hourly rate. I call it the a la carte rate, and it’s $100 an hour, and that’s like if somebody says to me, “Can you help me write this letter?” or something like that, and they don’t have a contract with me.

The next rate is what I call a project rate, and that would be someone saying to me, “That’s fine and dandy. I need you to help me with my marketing, but I really want to do a direct mail piece. So, what I want you to do is I want you to help me write this direct mail piece, and then I want you to pull all the strings to put it together.” And, that’s $80 an hour.

Then, I have what I call my contract rate, and that’s for like multiple contracts or an ongoing relationship, and that is a minimum of fifty hours and that’s $60 an hour.

Michael: How do you ask them to pay you – all up front, half up front?

Avery: The contract is all upfront. Your project rate is just billed on the invoice because that fee is always part of a project like a direct mail piece or something like, and I say direct mail piece because everything I do winds up being a direct mail piece. It’s a natural thing for me to do. In 2005, I’ve yet to do a website for somebody.

Michael: Well, you’ve got the printing background and you probably know it inside out.

Avery: I really do, but the fact is that is my direction. I wrote my own website. It’s in production right now. It took me thirty hours to write my own stuff. Right now, if you went to my website, it looks like I’m an ad specialty guy.

Michael: Do you work for one of the ad specialty companies?

Avery: No, but the reason why I have the ad specialty website is you’re in California, right?

Michael: Yeah.

Avery: There’s a regional insurance company called Erie Insurance. They’re based in Erie, Pennsylvania, and I have 430-some Erie Insurance agents as clients. They buy junk from me. I have that website up there specifically for them so they can go to it, and I don’t really promote it that much. I don’t really want to grow my ad specialty business.

It’s a huge pain in the ass. You’re the Rodney Dangerfield of the advertising industry. You’re the goofy stepchild of the advertising industry. I could tell you from personal experience that whatever a company spends on ad specialty, multiply that by four, and that’s what they spend on printing, and the chances of something getting an exact repeat in the printing business is about ten times what it would normally be in the ad specialty business.

But, the reason why I called is I want to do marketing seminars. I’d like it to be towards small business owners under say ten million dollars that have around ten to fifteen employees, they don’t have really dedicated marketing person, it just might be the office person who handles it, and the business owner knows, recognizes, feels that they’re just got to be a better way to do this. When I do get the right prospect, I have them salivating.

I’m not hurting my arm patting myself on the back. The fact is that my first contract that I got, she offered it to me. She was like, “I need you. How much will it cost me?” And, I said, “Laura, I have to think about this.”

Michael: Well, were you winging it or do you have it structured out, your presentation?

Avery: I totally winged it. The fact is that I ask some of the pain questions, like questions about what are you doing now? How much do you think you could grow? What’s holding you back? What kind of programs have you done in the past? Questions that I already know the answers to.

These people used to be designing their brochure in Word and printing it out on their inkjet printer, and putting a 37 cent stamp on it, and mailing it out to something that’s printed on an offset print that’s professionally written.

Michael: Okay, so you’ve got them salivating, but you don’t have it structured. You’re winging it.

Avery: For the most part, yeah. I basically tell them that I am an extension of their business that I’m like Laverne and Shirley making their dreams come true. You have some ideas, I’ll polish them up, and we’ll put them out. If I think they’re going to work for you, then we’ll do them. If not, I’ll tweak it, maybe get your approval on it.

So, to answer your question, no.

Michael: I asked you what you want to do. You want to put on these seminars and maybe close more people at once in a seminar type setting. How much more capacity do you have in hours to work with people? That’s the thing. You’re selling your life away for the hour.

Avery: Oh, I know. What my hope is, it’s kind of like a double-edged sword because right now, I am maxed out. I’m selling a lot of printing. Right now, I’m sitting out front of my screen printers shop. I’ve got to pick up a job and drive it to the other side of the city, but my hope is I’ve got maybe about ten clients really that account for a tremendous amount of my business.

Michael: So, you’re using the consulting as the front-end and your back-end is your printing services?

Avery: Yes.

Michael: And, there’s just as much money or more in the printing.

Avery: My average margin on anything printed is 40 percent. If a client gives me three grand as a consultancy, there’s going to be 20 to 25 or 30 grand of business coming way at 40 percent. So, that’s really my strategy. Now, how many of those do I have? Right now, I have one. That’s it right now. I’ve had others, but what’s cool about it is, that let’s just say you and I hook up. You give me the three grand, spend thirty grand, and you say, “Fine, you know what? I think I’m just going to use you for printing.” “No problem, Michael. I do that stuff all day long. Time for more brochures? Sure no problem. How many do you need?”

So, that’s kind of my model right now, but what I was hoping to do with the seminars is two things. Number one, I actually want to give them something they can use. It’s not going to be a pitch session. I’m going to give them stuff to use. Some of my friends, I told them about this, they say, “You’re out of your mind.” I said, “Well, listen, if you can take golf lessons from Tiger Woods for a year and you’re never going to play golf like Tiger Woods because you’re not Tiger Woods.”

These people are going to go away from this thing, and they’re either going to say, “I can’t do this myself”, or they’re really going to try it, and they’re going to do it half-assed, and the next thing you know, they’re going to be calling me because, “Can you help me out with this?”

The other thing is that I want to do a twelve session maybe twice a week with twelve hours of “Here’s how you do this” and, get maybe twelve or ten business owners in a room to each pay $500, and you show them how to do it themselves. Y2 does that, and I’m sure others do it, too. That’s my story.

Michael: It sounds like you’re doing it right now. You’re really in the printing business, but you’re using consulting to hook them in and back them into your printing. You get a little upfront money on the consulting. The negative is you’re selling your time, but you need that time to sell your printing. The money’s in the printing, right?

Avery: Yeah.

Michael: Where’s the real money? You’re selling time for dollars with the consulting. That’s a negative.

Avery: Margin-wise, the real money is in the consulting.

Michael: But, let’s look at lifetime value. It’s in the printing.

Avery: Right, the lifetime value is in the printing unless I’ve really pissed them off in some way, and my promise to my clients, and it’s been this way for the last ten years, I’ve discovered that quality is always cheaper. When they open up the box, they’re going to love what they see. If they don’t love what they see, then I’ve got a problem.

So, I ensure that by choosing fabulous vendors who deliver quality first, service second, price third.

Michael: What would you rather be doing, printing or consulting?

Avery: Consulting. I don’t want employees. So, I’ve had eleven employees at one time and I’d rather poke my eyes out. I want to sell my time. What I’d probably do eventually is hook up with another printer or another company that can do the whole kitten caboodle like I can do right now, like the ad specialty.

Michael: Just get partners.

Avery: Exactly, then I get something from them. Like, they’d give me twenty percent of gross.

Michael: Yeah, get rid of the employees. That’s fine.

Avery: I don’t have any employees right now. I want to keep it that way.

Michael: How much of the stuff have you listened to on my site with Richard’s interview on the HMA stuff?

Avery: When I went on your site last night, it was probably about ten o’clock, and I spent the entire day looking around for stuff. I listened to the Y2 marketing guy, and that was pretty much it. I did listen to Richard. Who is Richard, by the way? Richard, who?

Michael: I don’t give that information out until I get a non-disclosure.

Avery: Okay.

Michael: So, I have a whole section of interviews all on marketing consulting. So, if you’re looking at a program that can streamline everything, save you time and hours, and want something already cookie cutter that you can use for your consulting business, I’ve got it, and it’s about five times cheaper than anything else out there and it is better than anything out there.

You listened to the recording with Alex on the Y2. Or, did you listen to the guy named Greg that was talking about his experience?

Avery: I thought his name was Pat.

Michael: No, it wasn’t Pat. You need to email me and let me get you into a section of my site called “Consulting Secrets” where you’ll have all the audio interviews on the HMA program, about eight hours, free. You could download the transcripts, read them. You could listen to intensive Q&A with Richard about the consulting business and how his is different, and if you want to be a marketing consultant, who you’re going after, who would fit perfectly for it.

Avery: No, I only listened to that one thing.

Michael: Well, that’s just one thing. You’ll hear me doing consulting, me selling projects. There’s seven different projects you’re selling projects at a time rather than an hourly rate. So, a project can sell anywhere from $1,500 to $2,500 to three thousand depending on the gross sales of the company.

You’ll hear me sell a project right over the phone, cold from a phone call taking them through this opportunity analysis. It’s kind of like your questionnaire when you meet a client, but this thing’s been tested and streamlined and it’s organized, and each section of the questionnaire, which you could print out right there at the Consulting Secrets. It’s called the Opportunity Analysis Worksheet. It’s all used and designed to sell your consulting services.

I’ve got everything. It’s all there for you. The guy’s been out there doing it since ’89, Jay Abraham trained. He failed the Abraham stuff because he followed what Abraham taught, but it didn’t work in the real world. So, he came up with his own stuff.

I think the best thing for you is go back there and maybe print some transcripts, read through that stuff, and then email me. But, you’ve got to go through it. If you’re serious about doing it, you’ve got to at least listen to these things.

Avery: Maybe I will. Like, I said it was ten o’clock last night.

Michael: Well, do that this week or something. Call me back or email me and say, “Mike, I’ve listened to some of this stuff. It sounds good. Get me more information.” I’ll get you the pricing information. It’s 25 hours of video. I do intensive interviews like what you’re asking, how do I get people into the room. I’ve got intensive interviews with consultants making anywhere from $500,000 to a couple million a year doing consulting. With my interviews, I get the nitty gritty, and I’ve got interviews exclusively for the HMA consultants, a whole section called HMA University.

So, that’s my interviews for consultants only, and I’ve got all those answers for your. They’re all transcribed. You can print it out. You can take the word scripts. That’s good stuff. It will definitely give you a short cut.

Avery: Well, I think I overextended my stay here. So, I’ll go ahead. I’ll let you roll. Over the next two days, I’ll jump into that system stuff.

Michael: When you get back online, just shoot me an email and say we talked. Give me your name and number in there, and then I’ll save it, and then let me know if you’ve got a problem getting back into that Consulting Secrets section, or when you email me, I’ll send you a link back into it so you don’t have to look around for it. I was going to send you to another link where you can hear an intensive thing of a guy who was a Y2 consultant. You’ll hear the downfall of that.

Avery: I can tell you, I know like three or four Y2 guys. They’re back selling shoes and tires and whatever, and I thought about doing that, but I thought, “You’re going to pay them forty grand to teach me something I’m already doing now.” I said, “You ought to give it to me for free.” I’ve already got a book of this. They’re in the business of selling franchises.

Michael: Sure they are.

Avery: Okay, Michael, you have a great day.

Michael: Call me anytime, really, and if you need anything, the interviews are there to tell you all about it, but if you have any questions that I haven’t covered in there, definitely, don’t feel shy about calling me back, just call me, okay.

Avery: Thanks a lot.

Michael: Talk to you later, bye.

*******

Avery: Is this Michael?

Michael: Yeah, hey Avery.

Avery: How are you doing?

Michael: Good, how are you?

Avery: All right. I just finished up segment two, and a lot of what this guy is saying is stuff that I had mentioned in our conversation earlier today.

Michael: Well, he was Jay Abraham trained. So, Abraham has probably influenced a lot of people. Is that what you’re talking about?

Avery: No, not at all. Some of this stuff is really basic geared towards somebody who has absolutely no marketing or business experience at all.

Michael: Your client you mean?

Avery: No, no, no.

Michael: Oh, for you, the consultant?

Avery: When you guys are having your conversations, I’m getting the feeling that some of this is geared towards people recruiting future marketing consultants who have no business experience at all.

Michael: Are you listening to the question and answer thing?

Avery: Yes.

Michael: You know, I put out questions to my entire list, and so when we did that, all we did was field questions from people on my list, and my list – it’s pretty diverse. So, we just handled what the public wanted to know, and that’s how I handled that.

Avery: I guess the observation I made is just some of it to me seems like it was geared towards Y2 Marketing is going out there trying to look for anybody who has a pulse and forty grand burning a whole in their pocket.

Michael: Yeah, that’s right.

Avery: But, I’m very intrigued by it, and I’d like to learn some more about it. Now, I’m not done listening through the whole thing, but the HMA program, how does the training happen.

Michael: Let me ask you this. Have you sent me a non-disclosure yet?

Avery: No.

Michael: Shoot me an email really quick, and I’ll email you a link. It’s a simple non-disclosure agreement. Send it to michael@michaelsenoff.com , put Avery in the subject line, and then I’m going to send you back to a link that’s a simple non-disclosure agreement. Just fill it out and copy and paste it into an email. Fill it out and get it to me, and then I’m going to send you to an additional recording that I did with Richard where we go over exactly what you’re going to get with this system, and it’s going to even address some of this stuff.

There’s also some additional Q&A that you have not heard in these recordings and pricing and all that.

Avery: Yeah, one of the things that was interesting to me is there’s seminars that you guys have available, and audio for CD.

Michael: After you get me that non-disclosure, you’re going to see all of the tools I’ve put together for you.

Avery: Have you looked at the Y2 stuff?

Michael: Yeah, I have looked at the Y2 stuff. Did you hear the interview with Alex Whiting?

Avery: No.

Michael: Okay, this was a Y2 consultant. He’s in my HMA University. That’s in the recordings that I do with other consultant. He was a Y2 consultant. I’ve got about an hour and fifteen minutes with him. He spills the beans on Y2 and why that is.

Avery: That whole concept is they don’t really teach you how to fulfill that, and do all that it delivers. I could tell you, that’s pretty much what I’ve been doing for the last fifteen years. But, do you have any folks in the Philadelphia area?

Michael: I’ve got no one in Philadelphia.

Avery: No kidding. The arrangement that you have with Richard, you’re just the guy who sells the programs. Is that it?

Michael: It’s a joint cooperation where we have teamed up to present his material. He’s clueless when it comes to the Internet. I can barely get him to email me back. He came from the training selling big ticket items, face-to-face, belly-to-belly, and that’s what he’s good at.

So, we’ve teamed up. I’ve brought the Internet side to get the word out about what he’s doing, and I’m doing the marketing for it. But, the HMA is private labeled just for me because I’ve brought all the different things that you’re going to see in this last recording, all the additional value we’ve added to the system including showing you how to sell the consulting services automatically.

Just like you’re talking to me. You’re sitting there listening to me educate you on consulting, and we’re talking now. Well, I’ve set up systems for HMA consultants for you to educate your prospects on why they should use you as a marketing consultant, all on their own terms, all on their time. Do you see?

Avery: Yeah.

Michael: So, we bring the Internet in this. Have you listened to the string cheese guy?

Avery: I don’t think so, no.

Michael: All right, that’s pretty good. I’ve never met that guy, and I sell him on one of the steps, creating the USP for $1,500 right over the phone, never met him, 3,000 miles away, just using the opportunity analysis. And, you’ll hear the case study from start to finish. From the time he calls in I say, “Let’s do the opportunity analysis.” And, then you hear the opportunity analysis. You can print it out. You can follow it along, and read along. I’m just following the questionnaire Richard put together, and you hear him saying, “Let me think about.” You hear him calling me back saying, “Let’s do it.” And, then you’ll see a copy in the transcripts of the check he sent.

And, that was automatic all through the phone, not having to meet him.

Avery: Right. Some of this stuff is, like I said, pretty basic, how you make the cold call, how you target and all that. So, that’s stuff I’m already doing now.

Michael: Yeah. You need to know once you got them, what do you do with them.

Avery: Yeah, exactly.

Michael: And, that’s what’s in the system.

Avery: I did call Abraham’s people. I wanted some information about the Protégé program. He put me with some guy. The guy was like, “Well, it’s a mindset.” And, I’m thinking, “Well, I don’t need a mindset.” I want tools. I have no problem with talking with people. I have no problem with getting people excited about marketing.

Michael: You need to be able to deliver. That’s what this system is. It’s step by step. This last recording is going to bring it home for you.

Avery: Yeah, I’m going to start recording number three. Is the training all self-based?

Michael: It’s all home study. You have 25 hours on video. I’ve got all the video online, and audio format. I send you the manuals, the videos and everything. But, all my audio, like the audio you’re listening now, I have exclusive audio, interviews with Richard, interviews with his telemarketer, interviews with consultants. It’s all outlined. You’ll see it once I send you to that last recording.

Avery: Okay, cool. I sent you that email.

Michael: Okay, I’m going to send that back right now.

Avery: I’m listening to it going.

Michael: Richard’s a down home guy. He’s not full of shit. He’s not Mr. Slick Salesman. What you hear is what you get?

Avery: I’ll wait for that link.

Michael: I just sent it to you. So, just check your email in a second and get that back and I’ll email you back once you get that back. But, just take your time.

Avery: So, all I do is just go to that link?

Michael: Yeah.

Avery: All right. Well, I guess that’s it for now.

Michael: Good, make sure you listen to the string cheese one you’ll get a kick out of it.

Avery: I’ll listen to them all.

Michael: That string cheese? That was the second time I’ve ever did the opportunity analysis, and I screw up a lot of times, but the real key is if you’ve got customers who are in pain and need help, that’s the most important thing right there and just having a step by step thing to follow along. If you get off your ass and get one client, you’ve made it back.

Avery: Oh, yeah. I’m already doing this. I just need a track to run on. That’s all.

Michael: All right. Well, I’ve really busted my ass to put together a great program. Out of all the ones I’ve sold, but I’ve only had one person return it, and I give you 45 days.

Avery: Cool.

Michael: Okay?

Avery: Great, thanks Mike. Talk to you later.

Michael: Bye.

******

Avery: Hello, this is Avery.

Michael: Avery, good morning, Mike Senoff here.

Avery: Hey, how are you?

Michael: Doing really good, how are you doing?

Avery: Good. Yeah, I’ve listened to this, and like I said a lot of this I’m saying to myself, “Amen to that. Boy that’s kind of cool.” And, stuff about what to do on your first day, that stuff I already do already.

Michael: Forget that. You’ve just got to hear how people are doing it. Did you hear the string cheese guy yet?

Avery: I heard one segment.

Michael: A lot of marketing tells you how to do it. I’m trying to demonstrate how to do it through real case studies, and then the people I interview with my interviewing style, I get the goods out of them. I want to know exactly how they do it.

Avery: I’m just kind of messing around with it.

Michael: Do your thing, whatever, it’s fine.

Avery: I’m just slightly leery. You’re 3,000 miles away. I need to feel a little bit more comfortable.

Michael: Oh yeah. I want you to. I’m just a voice on the other side of the computer, and do some research on me. I don’t think you’re going to find anything bad on me.

Avery: I don’t find anything, really. Richard, I didn’t find anything on him. These people don’t exist. There’s nothing. I can’t find anything. So, I don’t know if any of this really exists. I don’t know if this string cheese company really exists.

Michael: Oh yeah, well they do. As a matter of fact, it’s really funny. I had a guy who listened to that recording, and he was right in that same home town, and he was doing some research on that. If you research the name of the company and they were just bought out.

Avery: You have to understand where I’m coming from, right.

Michael: Yeah, just from a skeptical point of view. I do understand, and go to the testimonials on my site. I have a hundreds of testimonials for however long I’ve been doing business. I’ve put together a PDF of some of the most impacting ones, case stories of my students, and if you take the time to read through that and hear what these people say about me as a person and as a mentor or whatever.

You’re dealing with me. Really, it comes down to you and me. Am I someone you can trust? And, that’s the bottom line, and that’s why I have those testimonials up there so you can read what others say about me. It’s a transcript. It’s called “Proof”, and read some of the stories about what people say about me. All right?

Avery: I’m going to roll, and when I get to that point – top to bottom. I’m going to listen to all the audio.

Michael: You’ll be fine.

Avery: Thanks.

Michael: Bye.

Avery: Bye Michael.

******

Avery: Hello, this is Avery.

Michael: Avery, it’s Mike Senoff here. How are you?

Avery: Good, how are you doing?

Michael: Good.

Avery: Okay, I got through some of the stuff, and I read this article in a magazine about ten years ago, one of my trade magazines, it said, “You know you’ve got the right price when the customer buys it anyway.”

Michael: Yeah, it’s worth a lot more than that, I think.

Avery: Yeah, I’m doing some research here, and I’m sorry I’m asking you all these questions.

Michael: That’s fine.

Avery: $5,570 is a lot of money.

Michael: That’s fine.

Avery: I’m trying to find some of these people like Christian Cares. He doesn’t show up on the Internet. Everybody that’s mentioned on here does not show up on the Internet. I can’t find them.

Michael: Okay, as a matter of fact, Christian did an interview with me before. He never even signed up as an HMA consultant. He already had a consulting business. Did you hear the recording?

Avery: Yeah, I did listen to it.

Michael: First of all, I know he’s findable because he told me to take his name because he’s been getting so many calls from my site.

Avery: I must be doing it wrong. I’m sorry to bust your stones.

Michael: I don’t know. Are you doing a Google search on him?

Avery: Yeah, I typed in “Christian Cares”, and nothing comes up. I don’t know.

Michael: All the people you’re hearing – there’s no fictitious people. Everything is as you hear it.

Avery: You know who’s ruining it for you?

Michael: Who?

Avery: It’s Y2 Marketing.

Michael: They’re ruining it for me?

Avery: That’s the reason I’m going through all this stuff, and I talked to some goombas on the other side. Do you know what “goomba” means?

Michael: What, idiot?

Avery: It’s Italian. It’s like “friend”.

Michael: Okay, friend.

Avery: Yeah, like, you’re my goomba.

Michael: Okay, yeah.

Avery: These goombas on the other side of the city here, they’re called Square Two marketing.

Michael: Oh, really?

Avery: Yeah, you could find them, Square Two Marketing, and they want forty grand for a franchise, and I told them. I said, “I’ve already got a business. This is what I do for a living. I already do this stuff.” They were like, “Sorry, man, forty grand.”

Michael: Have you gone through the final recording I sent you?

Avery: You know what? Michael, you’ve got so much stuff on there.

Michael: You’re confused?

Avery: No, I’m not confused. I don’t have time to listen to it all. I listen to a couple of them a day.

Michael: Okay.

Avery: How much content do you have on there? What do you have, like two days worth of content?

Michael: Oh, there’s hours.

Avery: You probably have 24 hours worth of content, don’t you?

Michael: Yeah, probably. Let me ask you this. Has any other companies given you 24 hours of content before you buy?

Avery: No.

Michael: The difference is me. That’s the difference. You get me. You get me returning your calls two minutes after you leave a message. You get me taking time on the phone with you, which you probably won’t need help. You get my reputation online, all the assets and tools and the contacts that I’ve had over the years. I’m action central when it comes to direct mail marketing, advertising and copywriters, all the people I’ve interviewed, everything that’s in my head.

When you become my customer, you become my goomba. You’ve paid me good money. I’m here for you. I help you out. If you need something, you ask me first. If you’re looking to save on other materials, it’s just all the resources, my site, and everything that comes with it. That’s what you get with me.

Avery: Michael, I totally understand, and there’s just a little air of skepticism. $5,570 is a lot of money, but it’s not like I’m buying a house.

Michael: Really, it comes down to am I trustworthy.

Avery: Yeah, I’d say that’s probably part of it. I’m looking at when you had those launch things that had that presentation on there.

Michael: Yeah, the articulate.

Avery: Is that something?

Michael: That’s mine. You’re not going to get that with anyone else. I developed that, and you get that customized with you. So, you can have a website that exact same presentation. You can put people in front of it automatically and presell them on consulting.

You’ve listened to me for hours and hours. That’s what I’ve tried to do for you for your consulting business, but you’re not going to get that with anyone else. That’s stuff I’ve developed.

Avery: I’m going to listen to a little bit more. I’ll give you a call – tomorrow’s Friday, right? We’ll wrap it up tomorrow. I’m pretty much sold. I just want to listen to a little bit more.

Michael: That’s fine. Take your time. I’m not going anywhere.

Avery: Are you cool with that?

Michael: Yeah, I’m totally cool. There’s no pressure on my end at all.

Avery: All right. I understand. I mean if it’s the same program as what I’m going to get up there, I don’t mind paying an extra thousand bucks. You do call back two minutes later. I don’t know if I’m really going to need that. I think in the beginning I would. I like the idea of being able to customize it to my own thing because I could tell you, I’ve got other things I’m going to roll into it.

I’m just a big branding thing. I’m really a big fan of branding, and then the other thing is that I come from the tactical end of this business where I sell tons and tons of direct mail, and I have specialties.

Michael: Well, look, if you get versed in this and you’re doing it, I’m always look for content. I’ve got consultants all over the world who’d love an expert on direct mail. If you’re going to do this, we’ll interview you. We’ll talk about all the services you can provide related to direct mail, and you can be the direct mail guy for my HMA people.

Avery: The other thing, and I’m just spitballing here, but here I’m pitching you, but after putting you through the torture test for $5,570. If someone put me through the torture test for $5,570, I’d probably tell them to go pound sand.

But, anyway the other thing, I’m going to create postcards, all the stuff I do for myself is all top notch, and I can make that available as along as these people aren’t competing against me. You could sell it to your HMA. You don’t know me from Adam. You’re going to hang up the phone and say, “This guy’s a crack pot.”

Michael: No, no, I’m not. I don’t discount anyone. I look for people who are doers, you know?

Avery: Yeah.

Michael: If you’re serious about it, and you can do that, and you can show me, “Look, I’ve got all this.”

Avery: I do it every day. I do consulting, but ninety percent of my business at the end of the day comes from selling something that you can put your hands on.

Michael: I like movers and shakers, and I’m open to doing business with them.

Avery: Cool, well, I’ll you run, but I’m going to listen to a little bit more. Like I said, you’ve got so much stuff on here, I don’t know if I’m going to be able to get to it all.

Michael: Well, go to that final recording, that last link, because that really outlines all the stuff you’re going to get. Okay, let’s talk later. Call me if you need anything.

Avery: You bet Michael.

Michael: Bye.

*****

Avery: Michael?

Michael: Hey, Avery, how are you?

Avery: Okay.

Michael: Good.

Avery: Here’s what’s up. I think I’m going to kick ass doing this. I listened to this thing about Vicky. That is exactly what I do.

Michael: Oh really, yeah. She does a lot of different things, and farms it all out.

Avery: I don’t know if you remember our first conversation, but the very first conversation was that I told you I was a print broker, and I’m used to getting the tactical things done for my clients, and now I need something to help them do more strategic type stuff, and the fact is that what Vicky does is exactly what I do.

I’m using this to fill my bag of tricks, and one of the things that she was saying was for a really big company, this really isn’t for them, and they already have marketing people. But, for a company that might have a hard time finding a marketing person, this fits pretty well.

I can tell you right now, I’ve already started using it.

Michael: Okay great.

Avery: Well, the idea of it, trying to find something within the company to fester out something they’re already doing, that they should be promoting.

Michael: Yeah, digging out the hidden assets.

Avery: Right. This heating/air conditioning client of mine, they’ve been around for thirty years. I don’t know how it is where you are, but if you open up your yellow pages and call a contractor, you’re going to have to call five of them before you get somebody on the phone.

Michael: Because they’re so busy.

Avery: Right. Well, they’ve got people answering the phones, and it’s not an answering service. They’re all company employees. And, when they say, “Hey Michael, what time is good for you? Can you come around noon?” If they say, “Noon”, they don’t say, “We’ll be there between ten and two.” It’s noon, and they’re fifteen minutes in either direction.

Michael: Oh, that’s perfect. That’s a great USP “On time everytime.”

Avery: Absolutely. Now, the other thing is that when they fix your air conditioner, they guarantee the parts for life.

Michael: Oh, that’s great, too.

Avery: They guarantee the parts, not the labor, but the parts. So, the fact is, is that I haven’t seen any other competitors advertise anything like that. So, that’s a hidden marketing asset.

Michael: Oh, absolutely. You may find that that may want to center around the USP. So, when they answer the phone, they say, “XYZ Heating and Air, where we show up on time within fifteen minutes, and we guarantee the parts for life. Who am I speaking to, and what’s the area code and number you’re calling from?”

Avery: Right, so, this one video says uncovering the Unique Selling Proposition. I haven’t gotten there.

Michael: Well, I’m looking at the titles here. You’ve got the Intro and Foundation to the system, and you’ve got Video Two Marketing Seminar Number One, and then Marketing Seminar Number Two.

Avery: Right.

Michael: Okay, and then Growing Your Consulting Practice Part One, Growing Your Consulting Practice Part Two. The marketing seminar is basically taking all the people through the whole system right there. This isn’t step one.

Now, step one in the whole thing right there is uncovering the Unique Selling Proposition.

Avery: You know what I should do is just start there, then. And, also I’ve been farting around on the Hard To Find Ads. Do I need to register for that?

Michael: When you go to HardtoFindAds.com , there’s a user name and password to get into the main part of the site. Well, you’ll type in “dollar”, and then “bill”. If you go back to your link, you’ll see it.

You go to HardtoFindAds.com , and then right at the top there’s a box. You’ll type in lower case “dollar” and lower case “bill. Then, you’re going to need to register and you have to fill out all your information. Once you’re registered, you’ll have an email address and you’ll have a user name, and then you’ll have access to all the ads. You can see them up close and everything.

Avery: Is HardtoFindAds.com just ads that I can kind of mimic them?

Michael: Oh, man, it’s the old time ads. Yeah, you’ve got some stuff from Gary Halbert, some of the greatest copywriters around. You know what? Go type in “air conditioning”. I guarantee you there’s some old ads on air conditioning, editorial stuff that really pulls out the benefits that have been researched already.

I know there’s some old Lennox air conditioning ads in there, too. So, whoever you’re working with you type the subject, see if you can pull some ads up that relate to the topic.

Avery: Yeah, see this lady gives me a $3,000 retainer. It’s based on hours. So, she spends thirty grand a year on all the other stuff.

Michael: Oh, that’s sweet.

Avery: It’s kind of the back end thing, and that’s what I’m going after. I’m going to do the USP thing, and do the opportunity, and all that stuff and charge for that.

Michael: Your real money is in the $30,000 or printing business?

Avery: Yeah, it’s not only printing. It’s ad specialties, direct mail, writing ads, designing ads.

Michael: All of the above.

Avery: And, that’s basically anything having to do with marketing the business. We’re going to be doing her on-hold message.

Michael: Are you farming it all out?

Avery: Oh, yeah.

Michael: What are you marking this stuff up?

Avery: It depends on what it is, but anywhere between 30 and 50 percent. I just did some calendars for her, and that was a 40 percent mark-up.

Michael: Do you have a printing place, or are you just a broker?

Avery: I used to own a screen printing business, and if you want to lose money real fast, own a screen printing business.

Michael: Okay.

Avery: And, I used to own an offset.

Michael: So, you’re just the middleman for everything?

Avery: Yes, I’m what’s known as a print-broker.

Michael: Got it.

Avery: There are companies out there, and I don’t know – stop me if I’m telling you something you already know, but one of the reasons why I got rid of my business partner, and one of the reasons why I got rid of the offset shop, we were partners in this offset shop. It was a retail offset shop, and what I mean by retail offset shop is any shop that Michael Senoff can go in and buy his business cards from.

Michael: That’s a retail offset.

Avery: Walk in the front door, and you place your order at your counter, and you walk away. That’s a retail printing business.

Michael: Okay.

Avery: Seventy percent of the work we were doing, we were sending out the back door to specialty printers. The printing industry has gotten a lot like medicine, and that is there are specialty printers, and they call on other printers and they call on print brokers and say, “Hey, if you need notepads, we’re a great notepad place.” And, there are companies that all they do is envelopes. That’s all they do is envelopes.

Seventy percent of the entire printing world is made up of what are known as trade printers. They only print for the printing trade.

Michael: Oh, I see.

Avery: I can tell you that there is a company in Philadelphia called Innovative Print and Media. They’re one of the largest printers in the area. At one time, they were $21 million. I think they lost a couple of really, really big accounts, and they’re down to about $12 - $14, something like that.

Michael: What’s the nature of the retail printing shop that you walk into like a Speedy Print?

Avery: What do you mean by the nature?

Michael: Are they hurting? Or are you saying seventy percent of their business is for trade?

Avery: No, seventy percent for your business cards, there’s a seventy percent chance that it’s going out the back door to a specialty printer.

Michael: Okay, I’ve got you.

Avery: Let me ask you this. Do you have business cards?

Michael: Nope.

Avery: No, okay. Have you ever seen the raise print on business cards?

Michael: Yeah.

Avery: That’s a specialty thing, and not everybody does that. There’s a company called Business Cards Tomorrow or Business Cards Express. There’s two different companies and they deal with stenography. You fill out the form. They fax it over along with the artwork and whatever, and this company prints it and drops it off, and it looks as if the printer did it, or like continuous forms.

Michael: Or labels. I use a company called Short Run Label.

Avery: Actually, I think I’ve heard of them, and I think they are a trade printer.

Michael: When I order, I’m acting as a printer and I get the discount. I just order for myself.

Avery: Right, and you know what? A lot of people don’t know how to do that kind of thing.

Michael: We can do a great interview on printing.

Avery: Any of these marketing consultants, Michael, they absolutely should be able to buy the printing wholesale. If they’re buying through retail, they’re buying it wrong, and they’re leaving a shitload of money on the table. I can tell you everything in the media business is available wholesale.

Michael: Right.

Avery: Now, I don’t know anything about billboards – actually I have a very good friend who’s a billboard broker, and if I need one, I could always call Pat, and he’d pay me a commission, but the fact is all the ad specialties, all that stuff – like there’s something called ASI, which is Advertising Specialty Institute.

Michael: Yeah, my sister works with Halo.

Avery: Sure, Halo, they’re one of the big ones.

Michael: Yeah, right out here in LA. She’s a top producer.

Avery: She’s a sales rep?

Michael: Yep, she was with Jack Naydel. Have you heard of him?

Avery: Yeah, sure, absolutely. The thing is I was in the ad specialty business for years, and I hate selling ad specialties because number one you’re the Rodney Dangerfield of the advertising industry. Number two, it’s such a commodity. You’re dealing with usually the office manager.

Michael: Yeah, I would never do it.

Avery: Yeah, it’s a real pain in the ass. The other thing is that you are only a cog in the advertising wheel, and my strategy has always been to sell more to fewer clients. I want to get in deep, deep, deep. I want to dig in so deep that they can’t get rid of me even if they wanted to, and I sell them everything from their checks to their calendars to whatever. I mean, I sell them everything that ink on it.

Michael: And, it would be such a pain in the ass to drop you.

Avery: Oh, yeah. I’m a one-stop shop, and that’s been my strategy, and now with this, I’m just adding this as my next step up because, now I think if I can go into a client and say, “Listen, dude, you just keep doing what you’re doing. We’re going to meet every once in a while. We’re going to put together this program. I’m going to get it rolling for you, and I’m going to manage it for you. You don’t have to do anything except cash checks.” And, that’s my strategy.

And, anything through the ad specialty business, all that stuff should be able to be bought. These HMA consultants should be able to buy all this stuff wholesale because they are in the industry.

Michael: Yeah, and a lot of ASI manufacturers, they’ll sell direct outside of ASI anyway.

Avery: That’s somewhat true, but the fact is that these HMA consultants, they’re in the advertising industry. They have a legitimate reason why they should be able to buy this stuff wholesale.

Now, what they have to do is do it. They can’t say, “Oh, I bought it from so and so, and here’s their bill.” They shouldn’t do that. They should mark it up and resell it. They should not pass through the cost and say, “You know, I’ll just bill you a fee or something like that because they’ll kill the industry.”

Michael: If you like this whole system that you want to continue on with it, let’s do an interview of all the services, and you can offer a lot as a one-stop shop for some of these people, at least the ones here in the US.

Avery: I can tell you right now that I would be a very good test case for you.

Michael: I think by the time you go through everything, and really get a feel for all this, you’re going to have in your head exactly how to do this, all the pieces will come together. I don’t think you’re going to be missing any little step.

Avery: That’s my fear.

Michael: No, no. A great summation of the entire system is really in that articulate presentation, that PowerPoint.

Avery: Yeah, I’ve already looked through that.

Michael: I mean, that really gives you a snapshot of the whole formula for the HMA system. These audios just go into all of that in detail.

Avery: Yeah.

Michael: Do you know what I’m saying?

Avery: Cool.

Michael: Keep plugging along. Get it in your head, and understand there’s no rules. This is just how Richard did it, and you may have better ideas than what he had. Just use the stuff out of here that you like, and that will fit with what you’re doing. Do you know what I’m saying?

There’s no rules. This is what he did. This is how he does it. Richard’s good at what he does, but he’s not God. Everyone has different ideas.

Avery: I like the idea of the client can buy the services a la carte. I think that’s a cool idea.

Michael: When someone asks how much you charge, you’re doing a per hour thing, that was just your style. You could formulate whatever you want.

Avery: I was going to create a USP. I package together. Vicky was talking about, I wrote it down.

Michael: Did you talk to her on the phone?

Avery: No.

Michael: Okay.

Avery: Standard pricing – basically, it sounded like she packaged together some of the products or some of the levels, whatever, and sold it and has standardized pricing. I was thinking about doing something like that.

Okay, and then the other guy, Doug, was talking about fifty quick fix strategies or something.

Michael: Yep, that’s one of your reports.

Avery: Is it in there?

Michael: Yeah, you’ve got that report. It’s if you got number one, Resell and Marketing Rights, 26 Client Generating Reports.

Avery: Yeah.

Michael: The 50 Quick Fix Strategies is in your download there.

Avery: The quick fix marketing which is a one shot.

Michael: You’ve got to download that zip file of all your MS Word documents.

Avery: All right man. I’ll let you roll. I’m going to keep plugging away.

Michael: Okay.

Avery: I’ve set aside the whole afternoon for this.

Michael: All right, Avery. Call me if you need anything else.

Avery: Bye.

Call Michael Senoff at 858-274-7851 for more information.