Michael: Now, 500 customers a year and let’s say you make yourself $500. Now sit down for this okay, that’s $250,000 in business. Do you see how asking for referrals, doing nothing but making a free phone call because it’s local. Even if you paid someone $50,000 a year to do nothing but make phone calls and work a referral system how that can make you more money?

Raphael: You’re right.

Michael: Hi, this is Michael Senoff with www.hardtofindseminars.com . Again, we have another opportunity analysis interview. This time it’s with Raphael Chapman. Raphael Chapman operates a big truck moving company and has been in operation for over 25 years. This particular call is going to be a great additional illustration on how to conduct an opportunity analysis -- how to uncover hidden marketing assets in a business. In this particular call, Raphael was at the point where he wanted to get out of the moving business and you’ll hear some real specifics in this interview of how he was leaving all this money on the table. And you’ll hear how I uncover thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars of potential net income by uncovering hidden marketing assets in his business. You’ll also notice how I’m closing all the way through the interview. After each section I talk about, I ask him can you see how you’re leaving money on the table. And this is real important when you do these opportunity analysis with your potential prospects is to always be closing through this interview. Enjoy.

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: This is Michael Senoff. How are you?

Raphael: Fine thank you. How about yourself?

Michael: Doing very good.

Raphael: How are you doing?

Michael: Doing very good and yourself?

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: Do you have about 45 minutes of uninterrupted time?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Great. First off I want to say I would like to -- with your permission -- as part of the service, I’ll provide you with the recording that we do today, so I’m going to record the call for training purposes for some of my other consultants because what I’m going to do is I’m going to take you through a system. We call it an opportunity analysis. And opportunity analysis is a set of questions that help be identify some of the money that you’re leaving on the table in your business. Now, I can’t say for sure that I’ll find hidden assets in your business; money that you’re leaving on the table, but I would say about 90% sure I can find some for you. So, that’s the purpose of our call today and would it be all right if I recorded this for the training of my people and so I can provide you a copy of the audio recording?

Raphael: Yes. Let me tell you what exactly my situation is.

Michael: Go ahead.

Raphael: I’ve been in the moving business for 30 years. This is just a small operation. I have three helpers and myself. The way I have done my moving business is I have worked physically in the business. I have been involved in all of the phases of the operation.

Michael: You’re the owner of the business, right?

Raphael: I am the owner. I am the worker. I’m the person that takes the truck to the mechanic.

Michael: So, you’re doing everything.

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: So, you’ve been working in the business, but not really on the business.

Raphael: That’s right.

Michael: I think it maybe a good exercise, even if you get into the mortgage business for a way to look at a business. And what better way to look at your business that you’ve had for 30 years and some of the things maybe you’ve done right and some of the things you’ve done wrong. Do you want to talk about your business some? Let me go through this system with you and let’s talk about your business the best you can.

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: The first thing I want to do is I want to just -- I don’t know how much I’ve told you on the phone about who I am and why we’re talking today. So, let me just tell you quickly about what I do. What I do and what my company does is I work with business owners, people like yourself, helping them to maximize their marketing success. Now, most of my clients are small to medium sized companies with sales under $5 million per year. Don’t laugh.

Raphael: If I had a million dollars, I would retire today.

Michael: Every business starts somewhere, right. Even Hewlett Packard they started in a garage. But I work with a unique marketing approach. I look at all of your marketing assets and I find ways to leverage and optimize your success from the assets you already have in place. Now because I try and leverage existing marketing assets, you can often realize dramatic and profitable growth without having to invest a lot of money or make a lot of significant changes in your business operation. So, what I’d like to do today is I’d like to take a look at your business and see where you are. I know kind of where you’re going and I’d like to see how we might be able to help your existing business because you may hold on to that business for a little bit. So, does that make sense to you?

Raphael: Okay, yes.

Michael: Now, usually when I talk to a business they’re in three different situations. They’re doing okay, but want to do better. They’re stagnant and there’s no growth or they’re declining. Tell me where your moving business is now?

Raphael: Stagnant.

Michael: It’s stagnant right now. Would you like more growth if we could get it in the business without much effort?

Raphael: That would be desirable, yes.

Michael: What would be exciting to you as far as more growth in the business? Could you quantify it at all?

Raphael: Well, this is a very small operation. I made a year maybe between $60 to $70, sometimes $80,000 a year.

Michael: That’s your gross?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: If we could double that, would that make you happy, would that help out?

Raphael: Oh yes.

Michael: Tell me a little bit about the operation. How many trucks do you have?

Raphael: One.

Michael: You have one truck. For 30 years, how have you been getting your business?

Raphael: Direct mail.

Michael: Okay, direct mail. Who are you mailing to?

Raphael: Houses on the market for sale.

Michael: Excellent. We’re going to get to that. Let me ask you a question, why should someone do business with you? Why your moving operation and not someone else? And what I’m trying to identify is I’m trying to look for under-promoted unique reasons why someone should use you, including your operation, your staff experience. You’ve got 30 years behind you. I want to know if when you send your direct mail piece, what do you say in there? Why should someone do business with you and not someone else? What reason why?

Raphael: I have a piece that I’ve been using for more than 20 years. It’s a moving guide and how to do pack. I have all the things on how to do pack.

Michael: How to pack up?

Raphael: How to pack, yes. And the main reasons is -- the first one is I am the owner and I am involved in the moving myself.

Michael: So, you do it yourself instead of hiring people that you may not be able to trust or something.

Raphael: That’s right. And the second reason is price. I’m not the cheapest guy in town. I’m not the highest. I’m in the middle. But mostly it’s just the trust that people have in me. They know that most of the time the mover is going to be accomplished with no problem.

Michael: So, when you do a move, it you yourself and you bring a couple of guys, right?

Raphael: That’s right.

Michael: This piece, did you create and write how to pack and move a home? Did you write it yourself or was it someone else’s that you just used?

Raphael: Somebody else’s I used.

Michael: And you started using that 20 years ago?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Do you people read it actually?

Raphael: That’s the main reason why I get business.

Michael: So, you’re sending that piece. Do you send a letter with it on top of it?

Raphael: No. It’s a flyer. It’s a foldout in four parts. One of the parts has a place for the address. Second part has in big bold letter pre-moving guide, how to do packing. And then the rest is just information on how to do packing. And then a couple of reasons why move with me.

Michael: Now, these are homes of people who you know are moving?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Who have just sold their house?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: And where do you get the list from?

Raphael: For many years I used to get it from the ___ service. When that becomes completely optimized through the computer, I lost that capability. So, what I did is my computer is set up to get addresses and I get the addresses from Sunday’s paper, the houses listed for sale, open house. I just put them in my computer and send these.

Michael: How many are you sending out a month?

Raphael: About 800, 900 a month.

Michael: We’ll get to that in a second. But as far as these things you’ve explained, in that mailing piece do you talk about you’ve been in business 30 years and how you yourself will come out and do move?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: So, you explain these reasons why in that piece that the customer gets?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: So, you’re building the trust right there.

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Your movers who help you, do they understand these reasons that are important themselves?

Raphael: I don’t think so. They don’t the slightest idea what they are doing. They just know how to move furniture. They’re people that worked for me for years.

Michael: I see. Well you know, one thing that’s really important is to get these reasons why integrated with your whole business and that would include those people. They’re helping you move, but do you realize if you educate them to the special reasons why someone should choose you over someone else, they can be a real benefit in helping you bring in business. So, first of all it builds pride in their work that they know the reasons why people are doing business with you rather than just being paid the $7.00 a hour or whatever you pay them. So, this is called the USP and it’s your uniqueness in even though there’s other movers in your area, some cheaper than you, some more expensive than you. Many of them make the mistake of not giving the reasons why they should do business with you. So, the first thing we do with clients is we establish your uniqueness and we do more research than what you’ve told me. I’m sure we can find other reasons why someone should do business with you and this has to be communicated all through your company or at least it should have been over the last 30 years because this clear, concise reason why people should do business with you will help you isolate you from all the other moving companies. Do you see? It sets you apart. Do you see how having that clarity could help you make more business if you had that over the last 30 years?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Next, let me ask you this. You told me you send out about 800 a month, right?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: What does it cost you, 37-cents?

Raphael: No, I do bulk mail. I pay maybe 20-cents.

Michael: What geographical location? How many mile radius are you sending out from you?

Raphael: Ten miles.

Michael: So, anyone moving within a ten mile radius. And where are you located exactly?

Raphael: I’m in the metropolitan Washington, DC area.

Michael: For numbers sake, let’s say you send out a thousand. How many end up converting into moves out of a thousand? Can you give me an idea?

Raphael: Four or five.

Michael: Four to five.

Raphael: What I do get is a lot of referrals.

Michael: Okay, but let’s talk about first just the direct mail. So, you’ll send out a thousand. Out of a thousand, you’ll get maybe four or five, right?

Raphael: That depends on the time of the year because in summer I might get maybe eight or ten because of the time when everybody moves. I get a lot more response. Today in the middle of winter, it’s harder.

Michael: How much can you make, average? Can you quantify an idea? If you send out a thousand, let’s say you get four for easy numbers sake. How much can you make on a move, net profit by the time you make the move? How much is a customer worth?

Raphael: About $500.

Michael: $500?

Raphael: Yes, $500, $600, sometimes $1,000. Roughly speaking, we’re trying to get a consensuses, maybe $500-$600.

Michael: So, let’s say $500. Now, do you ever mail that a second time? Do you just mail it one time?

Raphael: No, most of the time what I do is every Sunday I check the paper and if I see the house for the second time or the third time, I keep sending letters.

Michael: So, you’re checking them physically in the paper.

Raphael: Physically, yes. There’s a lot of labor involved.

Michael: It sounds like it. But the thousand names that you buy from the broker or from the multiple listing, these you get in a database right?

Raphael: I put in my database, but with no name, just the address.

Michael: You’re typing these in all yourself?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: All one thousand?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Is someone helping you or are you doing it yourself?

Raphael: I’m doing it myself.

Michael: You could go to a mailing list broker and buy these names already.

Raphael: No because these are a special names of people that have houses for sale at the present time.

Michael: So, the multiple listing data would not have this right?

Raphael: No the multiple listing data has it, but I have no access to it.

Michael: You don’t think you can get access to that information?

Raphael: I’m not really sure.

Michael: I bet you can. If there’s a list out there, you can get it. I would be 99% sure that this data that you’ve been spending all these years typing in yourself, you can buy this already done, and you can buy it for a lot cheaper than the time you’re spending entering all this data into a database. Absolutely I’m positive of it. These names of people with their houses for sale, this is available through a list broker.

Raphael: Think so?

Michael: Absolutely, I know so. Absolutely. You can get a list of anything you want. You just have to know where to go.

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: So, would that make your job easier if you could just buy the list for $150 a thousand rather than spending all your days typing this stuff in, looking through…

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: So, you see how you could save yourself some time and spend some of your time on more important things with the moving business like getting customers and stuff?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Let me ask you, how many people maybe inquire from the mailing but do not end using this service. You’re going to end up with four customers, but I’m sure you get more than four inquiries, right?

Raphael: Most of the time the person that calls me, I can get it.

Michael: Most of the time.

Raphael: Most of the time. I’m pretty good at sales. If I don’t get it, it is because they were the lookers. They were people that would call to get estimates…

Michael: Do you capture those persons name and phone number every time someone calls?

Raphael: Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t.

Michael: So, what happens to the people who do not convert into a sale?

Raphael: They go.

Michael: And you never follow-up on these guys?

Raphael: Not really, no. The way I always see it is if they want to take me it’s okay. If they don’t, still okay.

Michael: And that’s fine, but you know in my experience those people who call are calling for a reason. They’re not calling because they don’t need to move. They’re calling and they’re shopping. But you know people’s lives. They get busy, the baby starts crying, they got to go take the kids to school, they loose the number, they forget, something comes up and many times a day or two will go by and they still don’t have a mover. Do you realize if you just took all these inquiries names down and followed up with a simple letter or a call maybe a couple of days later saying I know you called me last Wednesday about moving and we’re all busy and I wanted to call you back again and see if I can help you with anything. If you did that on a consistent basis, do you think you could maybe increase your closing ratio just by making those simple contacts a couple days after that first call?

Raphael: Yes, I think you have a good point there.

Michael: Absolutely. And this is the easiest way because you’ve already done the advertising. Many times it just is a timing thing and a simple contact, a simple phone to those people, even though they’re looking, they may have intentions of called five, six, seven people, but may never get around to doing it because that’s life. Things happen, right. There’s always crises or things that come up, people loose things and they loose your number, they through the papers away and they wished they could have called you back but they didn’t have the number. Do you see? And they have no way of getting back with you. But by you implementing a simple system and making a simple phone call back to those people who originally inquired, whether it’s two days from the time they call and then maybe another call two weeks from the time they call, or a month. They maybe thinking of moving, but the house maybe didn’t sell, or maybe they had a contract and they thought they were going to be moving in two weeks, but the attorney screwed it up, so now their move is delayed and they still need a mover. Do you see what I’m saying? By you keeping in front of these prospects, do you see how you could increase your response and increase your income because some of those people just by following up a little more consistently instead of letting these prospects go you can make more money?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: And that’s simple isn’t it? That’s not hard is it?

Raphael: No.

Michael: That’s a hidden asset. These leads calling you are people raising their hand, but by you not following up, you’re leaving money on the table. And this is not hard to implement. If I could save you the time from entering all this data into a database by finding a list broker, you could take that time, spending it with qualified leads rather than spending the time entering data that you could buy for cheaper than you time. Your time’s going to be worth more money following up with these prospects. You’ll make more money doing that than entering data because you can pay someone $4.00 a hour to enter data. Do you know what I mean?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Let’s talk about past and present perspective customers. I want to look for a customer base that’s not being worked -- inactive customers or a lack of a database. I want to look for cross selling opportunities in your moving business, backend opportunities meaning that you could sell your customers something else, or customers who have never used you again. Let me ask you this, your customers who move, are they generally moving locally from one local area or are they moving out of town?

Raphael: They normally move locally.

Michael: They move locally from an apartment or an apartment to a house, or house to an apartment. What’s an average move going to cost them compared to what you’re going to make? You say you’re going to make $500. Is that net profit or is that your gross sales?

Raphael: That would be net.

Michael: You’re going to make $500 net. And what do you figure your cost on the move is? So, what are they going to pay -- $800.

Raphael: $800.

Michael: They pay $800, so you’ve got $300 in your guys, in your time, your truck, your gas and all your other stuff.

Raphael: Right.

Michael: Have you ever had customers use you more than once or are they generally a one time hit?

Raphael: Well, normally they are a one time hit, but I do get customers after five years, after three years, after ten years, 15 years.

Michael: The customers who actually use you and spend the money with you, do you have them in a database?

Raphael: No.

Michael: You do not.

Raphael: No.

Michael: So, over the past 30 years, let’s just give me an average, how many customers are you going to have a month, five to ten?

Raphael: My average for a year is between 240, 250 customers.

Michael: Okay, 250 customers a year?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: You enter the perspective prospects in a database, but you do not maintain any kind of database of the customers who have already spent money with you?

Raphael: No.

Michael: Do you see how having those names in a database because they’ve raised their hand, they’ve already said I trust you; they’ve used your services. Are people generally happy with your moving services?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: That’s the hardest thing to do is get the customer. You’ve spent the money in sending out the mailing piece. You’ve taken the phone call. You’ve qualified them. They’ve raised their hand. You’ve provided them with service. They’ve paid you money. They’re happy, right. They trust you.

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Now, by having these guys in a database, there are many opportunities for you to resell them something else. We’re going to get into this, but just based on referrals, you say you get a lot of referrals, don’t’ you?

Raphael: Yes, two or three, maybe four a month.

Michael: Four a month. Do you ask for these referrals or do these come naturally?

Raphael: What do you mean naturally?

Michael: Meaning, when you move someone, do you say, I’ve moved you. I hope you’re happy with my services. Do you know of anyone else who maybe moving in the near future that I could call? Do you have an active referral system getting referrals?

Raphael: No.

Michael: Would you agree that referrals are one of the best and easiest ways to get business?

Raphael: Oh yes.

Michael: Because the trust is already there. Do you think if you sent out a couple postcards or a letter or even called just 250 customers, your happy customers every month or paid someone to do this and said, this is your moving company. I know you have a great experience when we moved you. Do you know of anyone this month who maybe moving that I could call? If you just simply ask for it. If you asked 250 people, 12 times a year -- let’s just say -- this could be exciting. Let’s say you’ve got 250 people a year as customers and you called them every month, that’s 12 times a year. That’s 3,000 phone calls. Let’s be conservative. Do you think each one of those persons could give you one referral every six months if you just did that?

Raphael: I think so, yes.

Michael: Everyone knows people who are moving and people move over different times. I could give you three or four people who I know are moving within the last six months. So, let’s just say you called 250 people and let’s be conservative. Each person gave you one referral every six months, so that’s going to be two new referrals. That’s going to be 500 new customers a year that you just got from your happy customers. Now, 500 customers a year, and let’s say you make yourself $500. Now sit down for this, okay. That’s $250,000 in business.

Raphael: Wow.

Michael: Do you see how asking for referrals and doing nothing but making a free phone call because it’s local, even if you paid someone $50,000 a year to do nothing but make phone calls and work a referral system, how that can make you more money?

Raphael: You’re right.

Michael: And these are from your customers who love you. And this is nothing but establishing a relationship with your customers, you being almost like their friend. Have you ever heard of Joe Gerard? He’s the guy who sold more cars. He’s in the Guinness Book of World Records. This is what this guy does. Joe Gerard isn’t the guy who they bought their car from. He’s part of the family and he sends a big card every month. He sends it on their birthday. He sends it on their anniversary. He is almost like family. So, the minute that family thinks of someone who needs a car, who do they call? They call Joe. Well, you could do the same thing. Even if you invested $50,000 for someone -- that’s a good salary for someone working to implement a system like this. Do you see the money you could make just on referrals? It’s astronomical. Even if you did half of that, that’s still over $100,000 in business, $100,000 net. That’s $100,000 in net profits for you. So, do you see how capturing your customer’s names and their information can make you money? You’ve got to have a way to keep in touch with your customers.

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: That’s one of the things we do. When you hire me as a consultant, we implement that system in for you. We help you get that integrated into your business. Now, let’s talk about something even more exciting. Here’s another thing that we do as marketing consultants for small businesses and that’s called alliance opportunities. Alliance opportunities, I want to look for relationships with other businesses. We could use their database and their customer list to sell your moving services. Who else knows that that family or that home is about to be moved? Who else knows, besides you, what other businesses know that there’s going to be a move coming up soon?

Raphael: The real estate agent is the first one to know.

Michael: The real estate agents, Have you ever worked with a real estate agent to use them as bird dogs or lead generators for you?

Raphael: I do get referrals from them.

Michael: Okay, so they are a good source of referrals aren’t they?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: You probably have some who have been referring you for a long time?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: They call you and what do they say when they call you?

Raphael: Hey Raphael, I have a customer that I want you to take care for me.

Michael: So, a real estate agent having a reliable, trusted moving company like yourself that they feel confident recommending to their real estate clients is a benefit. It’s almost like an added service for that real estate agent, right?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Now, we could articulate that in a letter to real estate agents all in your geographical area and we can explain to them how a real estate agent can set themselves apart from all their other real estate agents by having a reliable mover to help their clients make an easy transition into another home or into another apartment or into another area. And by sending out -- do you think if we can send out maybe 1,000 letters or 500 or even if you made phone calls that person who you are paying $50,000 a year have that as another part of her job or his job is to call on real estate agents because when we get a real estate agent on our side who’s out there selling houses all month long, they’re not worth just $500. If they refer their clients to you, they are worth to you -- they could be worth over a years time $5,000 because if they get on your side and they like and you’ve established a relationship and maybe even if there’s something in it for them -- I don’t know whether a commission would motivate them, but something where they knew about you and you built trust with them, you could have ten real estate agents in your area giving you more referrals. So, if you actively pursued opportunities, joint ventures, with people who know who’s moving in the area, that’s one idea. Do you see how if you got one real estate agent who liked you and was willing to provide you referrals -- if they provided you a referral every month, that’s $5,000 a year in net profit for you just by getting a real estate agent referring you. Now, what if you had ten of them and with some work, some phone calls, even if you called on a hundred real estate agents and you didn’t do it yourself. You hire someone to do this and this is their job is to establish relationships with real estate agents. If you had ten real estate agents bringing you ten additional clients every year, that’s $50,000 a year in extra income, in net profit for you just by establishing a relationship. And real estate agents are just one person. Do you want to hear a perfect joint venture opportunity? What about appraisers, people who come and appraise homes?

Raphael: Those people are in contact with the people even before they…

Michael: Even before. What if you could do a simple letter to real estate appraisers in your area? A lot of these appraises are independently operated businesses, small businesses where they make $100 and $150 to go out and appraise a home, right. They’re working for themselves. They would love the opportunity to be able to offer another service to that potential client. If you provided the appraisers with your mail out piece that you send out with your company name on there and just gave them a stack of those and put a little number on the back where each appraiser had a little code and they pass them out to all their customers they do appraisals on because that customer is getting their home appraised because they’re selling it and they’re thinking about moving. And if someone called from that little brochure and you kept track of their number, you could give the appraiser a free dinner to one of the nicest restaurants or something nice for them, right.

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Or a commission. You could have all the appraisers on your side in your area bird dogging and bringing you referrals, bringing you business. Do you see how that can make you more money?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: By having appraisers endorsing you, you see it’s one thing by sending out a letter saying we’re a moving company and we’re great and here’s a guy that’ll show you how to move. But what’s stronger than an appraiser who says, hey, by the way, I know you’re moving, are you looking for a mover? If so, here’s a free guide that’ll show you how to pack up your home safely and properly and you can give these guys a call. Raphael’s the guy you can trust. Is that powerful?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: So, we look for -- when I do consulting with a client, I look for these alliances, these partners that already have the intelligence of knowing who’s moving in your area and I help you establish relationships with them where they can refer you business because a warm referral from someone already doing business with a customer is ten times more powerful than you calling someone cold or someone calling you out of the phonebook cold. Are you with me?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Do you do any media advertising because working with your advertising in the media is something that could increase your response? Do you do any Yellow Page advertising?

Raphael: No.

Michael: So, the only advertising you do is that direct mail piece?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: This direct mail piece, have you ever tested different things on the direct mail piece? Have you ever re-written it or a different headline or tried to increase the response on it or you’ve tried it 20 years ago and it worked and you’ve kept it the same all these years?

Raphael: It has been changed through the years. Adding or taking off things. And now it has been like this for a couple of years. The way it is, it is working.

Michael: When you changed it, were you able to measure or know if it did better when you made changes or worse when you made changes?

Raphael: No.

Michael: It was hard to figure out.

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Part of what I do as a marketing consultant is I take a look at that direct mail piece because that direct mail piece coming to home there are ways that we could increase the response. Now, you go get your mail every day don’t you?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Now, when you go get your mail, what mail do you throw away?

Raphael: Junk.

Michael: How do you know it’s junk?

Raphael: That you can tell.

Michael: How can you tell?

Raphael: By the envelope, what it looks like, by the headline.

Michael: Now, let me ask you this, what mail do you not throw away?

Raphael: Friends and family, something that might be intriguing.

Michael: Do you think some people when they get that in their mailbox maybe identify that as junk mail?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: And you think they throw it away?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: What if we could put that in an envelope, an envelope that is hand addressed with a live stamp, even though it’s bulk rate, you can get a bulk rate stamp and get a bulk rate mailing rate. And before the person gets it and they throw it away right now because when they see it it looks like junk mail, but if we could get them to get an envelope -- let’s say it’s a 9 x 11 envelope. There’s nothing on it. It’s hand addressed and it has a stamp. Now, people aren’t going to be so quick to throw it away. They’re going to open it up first, right?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Now, what if we had a chance with a little letter, typed letter that looked like a personal letter that had a chance to tell them what’s inside this thing or what it is -- maybe a little introduction letter. When you send it, there’s no letter with it explaining what it is or positioning it?

Raphael: No.

Michael: What I’m saying is, we can sometimes increase the response of your direct mail piece. You could sometimes increase it 20%, you can sometimes double it by doing some things to your mailing piece. Does your mailing piece have a headline? What’s the first thing they see on it? What does it say, do you remember?

Raphael: It say moving guide, how to do packing.

Michael: Moving guide, how to do packing. See, we may be able to change the headline on it. We may be able to say free moving audit, or offer something for free.

Raphael: I have the word free up there. Free moving guide and how to do packing.

Michael: Well, I don’t know what it is and I’d have to look at the mailing piece, but what I’m saying to you is we could maybe make that mailing piece do better. We could maybe make it pull in not five paying customers a month, but we maybe able to make it pull in ten paying customers a month. Now, if we can make some small changes to your mailing piece that you’ve been using for 20 years and it could bring in an additional -- it could double your response just by what it says on there, or just by the offer, or just by the headline, or just by putting it in an envelope so twice as many people don’t throw it in the trash before they know what it is, do you see how that can increase your business, as well?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: By doing something you’ve already been doing for 20 years, but making a change.

Raphael: Let me ask you a question. Do you have a fax machine?

Michael: Yes I do.

Raphael: What is your fax?

Michael: Fax it to me at (858) 274-2579.

Raphael: If you want, I can send that to you right now.

Michael: Yes, go ahead and send it to me -- (858) 274-2579. I got your fax here and here’s my question for you. I went to the website www.fsbo4sales.com . So, what is this website here?

Raphael: That’s the website that I got with my mortgage business.

Michael: Let me ask you this, on this flyer that you’ve been sending out, has this website been on it all this time or did you just add it?

Raphael: No, this website has been for a while.

Michael: How long?

Raphael: About four or five months.

Michael: The reason I ask, when I read the thing on moving and I go to the website and I thought I was at the wrong site because I see stuff related to real estate and for sale by owner, but I was looking for information on moving. Do you know what I mean?

Raphael: Yes. Well, there is one section up there that says I was shocked and embarrassed.

Michael: On the website. Oh, shocked and embarrassed. What I would do if I were you, on this piece, if this is going to be a lead generating piece and you’ve been sending this out to thousands of people, you’re going to confuse your people. This is a piece on moving and when you move them to a real estate website, they’re going to be confused and they’re going to click off of it. You should have a website specifically on your moving services because that’s what this brochure is about.

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: Do you see what I mean?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: I was confused. I’m like what website is this? What does this have to do with moving? Do you know what I mean?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: That’s some instance advice that I would give you right away because you’re confusing. This is about moving. I need a mover. That’s why I went to this website. I need to see information on how you can help me move, not anything else or you’re going to lose me.

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: I didn’t read through the whole thing, but I liked the I was shocked and embarrassed when I find out that my moving companies are America’s number one most complained about industry. I think it’s a good headline. I don’t really hear a benefit of what’s in it for me. Do you know what I’m saying?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: It is interesting, but every time you read something, I’ve got to say, well so what. Why do I care if you were shocked and embarrassed when you found out that moving companies are America’s most complained about industry? As you said, if I need a mover, I want someone I can trust. So, you may have a quote from one of your clients that’s saying, Raphael’s moving company moved me for less money, in less time and I could trust him 100%. When he returned my diamond ring, I couldn’t believe it. Something like that, that establishes trust and establishes the real benefit. In the first part of what I do, we need to research and find out what do people want most. Why are you different? And that’s done by researching, talking to past clients. What was important you moving them? What was important about the move? So, we identify that real thing and that needs to be in the headline, your unique selling proposition. The real benefit that people really want from the mover and that’s what we identify. So, that may help you because your headline, it’s been proven that negative headlines do not pull as much as positive, benefit oriented headlines. Are you with me?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: But your letter is good and it’s very informative and it offers some great tips. Now, this is mailed as a tri-fold. This folded over, so it can be inserted into a envelope and hand addressed. For most people who don’t read it, they may not take the time to read it, it’s going to go in the trash. I think you can get a lot more people reading it by taking this and putting it in a hand addressed envelope with a letter. See how you have all the columns on this first thing; one, two, three, four, five columns. This should be written out like you get a letter from your daughter or your son or from somebody or an attorney. It should be written out in a certain font, Dear Potential Mover. My name is Raphael Chapman and I have operated a big truck moving company for over 25 years. I would change that. I would talk about; I know you’re thinking about moving. Did you know moving can be one of the most stressful things in your life next to divorce and I know because I’ve been moving people just like you for 30 years. We talk about what’s in it for them. We identify with their frustrations at the very beginning. But a letter needs to be written like you would get a letter from your attorney, typed up real nice, and that’s going be the first thing that they read. And you can go into all these things, but a letter’s going to be read more than this six column thing. You see?

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: And it really should be in a Number 10 envelope and should have a stamp. Even if you used a 37-cent stamp, you could mail this for 37-cents with a Number 10 envelope and I would not have a return address on it, meaning the return address should not say Big Truck Movers or R. Chapman. It should only say 5702 Huntington Parkway, Bethesda, so the person won’t know what it is about and that curiosity, hand addressed with a stamp will make it look like a personal letter and that will get it opened. And then once you get it opened, then you start with a personal letter coming from you.

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: Then you can do one or things. This is another idea. You could take the brochure and put that in a Number 9 envelope and insert that inside the Number 10 envelope, so when they open the Number 10 envelope, all they get is your letter and at the end of the letter it says, in the other blank envelope is a report that if you do need moving will help you and guide you on how to pack up your home. So, you don’t want them opening it up seeing the brochure and saying, oh yuk and dumping the whole thing in the garbage. You want to get them to read the letter first, have the brochure in another closed envelope like a Number 9 envelope, and then let them read the letter first. You can write on that Number 9 envelope do not open until you read to letter because you have to give them a chance. You don’t want to give them a chance to dump your piece. These are costing you 25-cents each and you need to get them to read your personal letter, why you’re sending it, what’s in it for them. Then they can open up the brochure. Do you see?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: So, I think this will really help your response. You’ve got to rid of that website or put a website that’s related to moving. Don’t even have a website on there, just have your phone number.

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: Because what happens when you have a website -- when you give someone multiple ways to respond, if you have a website and I get this and I read it and I’m busy, I’m going to say, okay, I’ll just go to the website later. But if I need mover and there’s only one way to get in touch with you and I call you, then you’re in control, whether you answer the phone or have a answering service answer the phone to capture that name, to capture that prospect, then you can follow up once you get their number. When they call the first thing you should say is ask them what their name -- first and last name -- and get their number. Once you’ve got that, then you can help them out. Only have a phone number. I wouldn’t even bring them to the website.

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: It gives them a reason to delay.

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: And it’s been proven. Having a phone number is the only option to use a service out pulls having a phone number, email, website, mailing address, all that. Your response will go up just by having the phone number. Plus your website is confusing.

Raphael: Okay. Thank you very much Michael. That’s very good information.

Michael: You’re very welcome. Imagine if you doubled the response. That’s an extra $2,500 a month just from your mailing of a 1,000 pieces, but that’s every year, you see, once you make the changes. And you have to test these things. So, that’s part of what I do is I look at your existing advertising and show you ways to increase it, to get better response. So, we’re leveraging something you’re doing already, but we’re making some simple changes that can make a big difference. Are you with me on that?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Another thing that is something you can do to increase your business, it’s called community marketing. And I also look for ways to boost your image in the community. You’ve got some unique owner experience, meaning you’ve been doing this 30 years. You could probably tell me everything there is to know about the intricacies of when you’re moving your home into a different area and all the things to look out for, couldn’t you? You could establish yourself as Raphael, the moving expert in your area. Now, have you ever worked with the community to get involved and establish yourself as kind of like an expert beside your mailing piece? Have you ever set up a booth at any of these local events like blood drives or any of the festivities or local events where people will come to? Have you ever done anything like that?

Raphael: No.

Michael: That’s just one other way to get business and establish yourself locally because you are a local guy, right. How long have you lived there?

Raphael: Thirty years.

Michael: There’s another thing that comes into play with this and that’s press release. You could develop a little press release. A press release is something that the news stations and the radio stations look at before they decide to do a story. You could do something with your local media. They’re always looking for good stories to put on the news. Community marketing isn’t something I’ll always implement with clients. It’s sometimes available if there is a fit. Here’s something really exciting. Here’s another thing and that’s direct marketing. You’re doing direct mail right now, but what I want to say is what products, what other things do you have that could be marketed to your customers? Now, you’re moving them, but when someone moves, what else do you see? Look at all the things that they’re going to be buying once they get into their house. Do you see? They may need carpet for their home. They may need tile for their home. They may need construction. They may need new furniture.

Raphael: Painting.

Michael: Painting.

Raphael: It’s almost for sure.

Michael: Stucco, what have you. Now, what if you spent just a month establishing partner relationships with a painter in your area who you can trust? A stucco guy, a furniture store, all these things that this customer is going to need down the road. Since you already have the trust with this customer of yours, you could really add value to your moving business by sending them a certified vendor list of people that you’ve checked out personally that you highly recommend do these things. So, you could send out a letter saying, Hi, it’s Raphael, the mover. I wanted to send you this because I know you’re now getting settled into your new apartment or your new home. I’ve been in the area for 30 years. You may be new to this area, but I wanted to send you my confidential Rolodex of vendors and suppliers of people that I highly recommend you contact. Number one is John the furniture store. He’s located on 4216 Alabama Street. Go in and bring this letter and show John that Raphael sent you and he will for sure will take of you and he’ll also offer you 15% off on any new furniture you buy for your home. Next is Paul the carpet cleaner. He’s a ChemDry distributor. ChemDry is the best way to clean carpets and I’ve known Paul for several years. And if you bring this letter into Paul and tell him Raphael sent you, Paul will give you a free room cleaning when it’s time to clean your carpets. And then Mike, the painter -- Mike’s been painting houses in this area for 15 years. He uses only DuPont, the finest paints available and he’s a guy you can trust. Many painters will be from out of the area and will water down the paint, but I’ll tell you for sure, Mike is a Better Business Bureau. I know him personally and I’ve talked with Mike and he said that if you need your house painted and you bring this little coupon in for Mike, he’ll paint the whole exterior of your house for 20% less than anyone else. All you have to do is bring this in and tell him Raphael sent you. What I’m getting at is you look for things that these people are going to be buying and you establish relationships with the painter, with the carpet cleaner, with the furniture guy where if you refer them business that they can pay you a percentage, so you can make a commission on whatever you refer to them. Is that exciting?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: So, you could making a commission from five different companies, five different businesses. Do you think they’re always looking for more sales?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Absolutely. So, it would take some time to set it up, but that’s one thing I do with client is I help you establish these ongoing relationships with other vendors in your area. So, you’re leveraging what you already have. The most valuable thing you have is your customer. He’s the guy who has already paid you $500. He’s the guy that is happy with your services. He trusts you and he’ll thank you for referring him to other trusted people that you’re confident will take care of them. All people want to know is that they can trust a guy and that they’re going to do a good job and do it at a fair price. And believe me, they’ll follow your lead if you have that relationship with them. Now, do you see that can bring you in additional income for your moving business even though it is totally non-related to moving?

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: These are some of the things that can really increase your business. In all of these cases, we’re using the assets you already have. Now, the way I work is strictly on a project-by-project basis and depending on what I do for you the fee is usually anywhere from $1,000 to $2,500 per project. The very first project that I do with a client is I establish that USP, that unique selling proposition, that reason why someone should do business with you. These things I’ve talked about are universal in any business.

Raphael: Yes, I’m pretty well aware that you can use these. What you just told me, it can apply to this business or real estate business, the mortgage business, whatever business.

Michael: It’s pretty powerful isn’t it.

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Has this been helpful for you?

Raphael: Very helpful. I have been taking notes.

Michael: I will send you this entire recording. So, when you get into the mortgage business or your real estate business or whatever, you re-listen to this and just identify it with your business and follow these steps and follow these ideas that I’ve given. And most importantly, don’t try and do it all yourself. Hire someone to do these things for you if you don’t think you’re going to get around to it. Implementation is really the key, doing it. And it does take a little more effort on the front end getting this stuff set up. But once you have it set up, they’re ongoing, especially the joint venture relationships. You can really leverage someone’s entire database. Most people never do anything with their database. Most people never mail to them. Most people never follow-up, they never call and these are assets like you wouldn’t believe that you can just walk in and take just for the asking.

Raphael: Yes. Let me ask you a question. You say you charge between $1,000 to $2,500.

Michael: Yes, per project. Like we talked about six different projects. We talked about developing a USP, a unique selling proposition. We talked about implementing -- taking that unique selling proposition and putting that into your direct mail piece, for example, with your moving business. Letting your employees know why you’re special and why people should do business. Maybe when someone calls you and they’re put on hold, having that on your on hold recording, having it on your letterhead, having it on your invoices; integrating this quick statement of the reason why someone should do business with you in all your marketing pieces where a customer sees that. So, that’s step two, integrating it. Step three is working your database. Now, for example, with your moving company it would be working with your past customers, getting all those names into a database and then offering them other opportunities. And the four is alliance opportunities, setting up business deals or joint ventures, finding companies that fit the same thing like the example with the appraiser. Working a deal with him where you’re doing lead generation or you’re trading leads or he is endorsing your moving services. And then there’s the media of advertising. Analyzing all of your advertising like your direct mail piece or your Yellow Page advertising. Then there’s the community marketing, which is like press releases and doing things in the community that can bring you greater business. And then the last one was direct marketing. So, these are all different steps that I charge individually for and you do them one at a time. So, you’re not committed to doing all of them, but we start with a system. But I do guarantee my results. So, if you hire me and you build your mortgage business or whatever and you get some customers and you hired me as a consultant, I guarantee that you make your investment back or I’ll work with you until you do.

Raphael: Okay. That’s really very good news. It’s really good to have a marketing expert on your side. They can take you a lot farther. Why reinvent the wheel.

Michael: Right. No better investment than learning from an expert. Now, many times people are so busy that they don’t have time to do and that’s where a guy like me or one of my trained consultants would come in where they want someone to do it for them, and many times implementation is the key. And with my services and my trained consultants services, they do the implementation. They do a lot of this for you. They can’t do it all for you and they’re not going to do it all, but you have to do it with them. But they will work with you as a coach to implement this stuff so it gets done.

Raphael: Yes.

Michael: Always go to an expert in whatever you decide to do whether you’re doing mortgage brokering or real estate. There are specialists who teach how to do the mortgage business.

Raphael: Okay. Well, thank you very much. And you say I probably can get a list of houses on the market? What would be a good place to start looking?

Michael: I want you to look in your Yellow Pages under list broker, or go to www.infousa.com and call Information USA and tell them what you’re looking for.

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: There are specialty lists. If they can’t find it, don’t give up. Call a real estate agent. Call a real estate office and ask them. Tell them who you are looking for.

Raphael: They have information that they keep for themselves.

Michael: If they have it, you can find someone to get it for you.

Raphael: Okay.

Michael: Very nice talking to you and thanks. I’ll send you this recording once I get it edited.

Raphael: Thank you very much.

Michael: You’re very welcome.