Kris: And today we are talking with Bill Gladstone. Author of The Golden motorcycle Gang, a story of transformation also written with Jack Canfield. Bill, thank you so much for joining us today.

Bill: Well, it’s really my pleasure.

Kris: This is an interesting book.

Bill: Well it’s based on a true story.

Kris: You know it sounds like you had some amazing experiences. And I wondered if you’d share, what was the inspiration for this?

Bill: Well, there’s actually different levels. The back story of the book is quite fascinating. I’ve known Jack Canfield for about twenty years. We were both speakers for IBI, which later became CBO space. And I was very taken with Jack at that time. It was just a few months before Chicken Soup for the Soul had been released. So he wasn’t famous but he had at charisma about him, and he was just so clearly focused on coming up with exercise that would help other people. He did a self-esteem exercise a talk he gave. I remember everybody doing the exercise and I did the exercise and they actually work. So I was fascinated with Jack from that moment on, even though I didn't represent him, because once the Chicken Soup for the Soul took off he didn’t actually need an agent. And I’m a literary agent in my normal life, but we became friends and whenever I was in Santa Barbara visiting my other clients there, I would stop by and have a meal with Jack. And during one dinner, he told me the story of the Golden Motorcycle Gang. And I was just fascinated with the story because to me having had an out of body experience myself when I was years old. I was given penicillin to which I had a negative reaction, negative in the sense that I literally died according to the doctor all my life signs were gone and I hadn’t experienced as my consciousness ,my spirit being, --7851 --7851 whatever you want to call it have you existing after my death. And then I wrote a novel about is called The Twelve in which I explain when I came asback into my body, then had a series of adventures. (Inaudible.) Well when Jack told me the story of the Golden Motorcycle Gang, and the story of the Golden Motorcycle Gang came him when he was in graduate school in Massachusetts. He was asked the question along with all the other graduate student's educational program to think back to the first moment when they wanted to become a teacher and most of the students thought their parents, another teacher, a book and experience Jack went into a meditative state where he visualized himself riding golden motorcycle through space with other spirit beings. And looking down and seeing a small blue planet in distress and thinking guys we better get down there. It looks like they need our help. And at first his buddies resisted and then they said “Okay let’s stop and see what’s gonna happen.” Well, of course, the moment they incarnated they forgot who they were as spirit beings and then Jacks life began. And the Golden Motorcycle Gang is really the history of that.

Kris: Now did you have a similar type vision? It seems to be there was something about that in the Golden Motorcycle Gang.

Bill: Yes, I did have a similar and vision. Not of riding golden motorcycle gang but be aware that on a very real level we exist as spirit beings. The story Jack had told of visualizing may at some level have been a real experience. My experience was when my left my body when I died. I was surrounded by other spirits beings. I was in bliss. I was in a place that is almost impossible to describe. So when Jack told me the story of the Golden Motorcycle Gang, it was like I’ve been there. I could have been one of the gang, you know? I didn't know at the moment. But it just struck me as more than just a metaphor. It struck me as a story that might be literally true. Now it doesn't matter to me whether the reader believes in spirit beings or doesn’t believe in spirit beings because as a pure metaphor it’s a wonderful metaphor. And Jack's life is organized around this inspiration that he had in this moment of visualization of incarnating for a specific purpose to inspire and teach and help heal this planet. And whether that's real or just imagined if a very good position to have in life. I think it didn't part of the --7851 --7851 reason that has made Jack so successful with his books his seminars and also made him very happy human being. And I share that motivation, and it’s one of the reasons that I’m a very was happy human being. Because I do see a larger reason for my existence, it’s not just about me, it’s about what I can do to help others. And in my case it’s not anything dramatic, I help others get their books published in real life of productive connection. Connecting to as many people as I can with their project and their dream.

Kris: We could mention it’s very significant people that you’ve helped. I know, I (Inaudible) was one of those people. And he's got a really interesting story. Eckhart, or Neil Donald, or Barbara Marx Hubbard, or Diane Billson all the people these people that I get to interact with are just fascinating human beings. And for so many years I was focused on technology. I got to work with people like Leones Tolhort who created bulimic operating system, Peter Norton created Norton Utilities, Tom Anderson who created myspace and on and on. So I feel very blessed in my life, but it is interesting how my life has evolved without any planning in a way that the only real unifying principle that makes me successful is my ability to focus and to focus in joy and helping others. And I think that is the key for Jack as well and for many of us here and I think that as the world starts seeing that there is not the zero-sum gain, not the conflict between the computer of yourself and taking care of others, we will evolve towards what Barbara Marx Hubbard call of conscious evolution and a new earth. And that’s kind of the theme that we've implanted in this book. And that’s frankly why it’s a novel. It’s not until you get to the end of The Golden Motorcycle Gang that we start to invent things. And what we’re inventing, are imagined future, but until about the year 2008, everything in The Golden Motorcycle Gang is literally true.

Kris: That’s why it’s an interesting blend of history and incident imagination too. You know you talk about when you were you had near-death experience and it was penicillin change your outlook. You actually had been declared dead. --7851 --7851

Bill: I was with the doctor, didn’t get a death certificate issued. I wasn’t dead that long. I don’t know whether I was dead a minute or -minutes, it wasn’t a long time. But the experience I had was the doctor gave me this shot said, “Sit in this chair, I’ll be right back.” And the next thing I remember, was being extent that I felt myself as just a consciousness in the corner of the room, looked down saw these human beings making a lot of noise. Then focused a little closet so the human being was wearing a white coat recognized them as a doctor, asked myself why is that Doctor so upset. Oh, that Doctor is so upset because that body won’t respond to him and then, “Oh that’s my body, I better get back into it so the doctor won’t be upset. And then my next memory as the human being was looking into the eyes of this doctor and seeing his face go from panic to relief. And then were gone, you had no pulse, you turned green. You must have had a response, so in my case it was clearly a blessing, I mean obviously if I had died it wouldn’t have been a blessing. I mean there really is life after death. I was dead in the sense that I didn’t have a body anymore and probably the personality wavelength was probably disappearing. But I was still alive. My consciousness survived. I wasn’t in that state long enough to know if all my memories would of the survived, but I had a sense of being alive. I don’t know how to say it in any other way. And the first few years when I would share this experience with others, you know I had this experience in the ’s people thought Oh, it was drug-induced, or the oxygen to your brain was stopped you were hallucinating and you know, you didn’t really have this experience. But now we know because millions of people come forth with similar experiences, with similar descriptions if the states they entered in their near-death experiences to know that these experiences are true. And part of what the Golden Motorcycle Gang story did, when I heard it was reconnect me. For years I had not even shared this story. I mean I was obsessed with it for a week after it happened, and then as a young kid when people were making strange faces at me, thinking I was weird, I was like okay I’m not going to be captain of the football team and president of the school. Which I --7851 --7851 with a little far out. So I kinda had put it on the side. When Jack told me his story of the Golden Motorcycle Gang, which he had never really focused on outside of his very intimate circle, because he also, I think got a little bit of a reaction, this story’s a little bit far out of it. Did Jack actually think he was experiencing it? I mean come on, this is the guy that we’re paying tens of thousands of dollars to come to out corporation. He sets principles to make money and he’s talking about this woo-woo stuff. I don't thinks so. Jack was a little shy about this and it actually took me years of every time saw Jack saying, “Jack, we’ve got to turn that Golden Motorcycle Gang into a book.” And he’s say, “No, I’m kind of busy, no.” And finally I convinced him really by accident again because I had somebody who wanted to do a children's book with Jack. And I said “Oh, do it around the Golden Motorcycle Gang.” And then things evolved there was a miscommunication with Reed Tracy the CEO of Hayes House, where he said, “Yeah we do children’s books.” But he meant test based books of , words or more. And my client who kinds wanted to do the Children’s version of the Golden Motorcycle Gang was thinking of a 1500 word picture book which Hayes House didn't publish. So, you know at first I had a moment where I said, “Well I guess this isn’t going to happen. Sorry for wasting your time Jack.” And then I said now wait a second, , words, I’m a novelist I can write this. I’ve never done a YA book but, I’ll just do it myself. And then of course it evolved cause I don’t really write children's books I write books for adults. So, even though I think the book is written at a level that a 12nyear-old will understand and enjoy the Golden Motorcycle Gang. I really have written with Jack. And I wrote the first draft and then Jack edited it, and we wrote together the final draft, but the book evolved not with this big plan of like oh, we’re gonna get together and we’re gonna make a lot of money. No, it was just I love this story we needed somebody to write a children's book version, which is why the developers intend that’s how the book came to be. Of course now that the book appeared is here Jack and I are both seeing how this is really a potentially very important book, because it really can galvanize thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people towards positive action and cooking up with our mutual mentor and friend, Barbara Marx Hubbard, we added in the --7851 --7851 appendices information on many, many organizations, some of which have the ambition of enlisting as many hundred million people in their movement 's Push for Peace, Pachamama Alliance and Unified Earth. So, there’s levels to the book. One an entertaining story that anyone whose read any Chicken Soup book is going to be interested in knowing more about Jack Canfield, who created that series. And then the other side of it, is there really a spiritual message and a call to social action. We’re just pleased that we were able to bring the story to so many people and seeing the positive impact that it’s having. --7851 --7851 past life regression, or other people report very similar types of experiences. That’s exciting for us because we think they if we can a couple of books out, it will show that it’s not just Jack and I but it at least a hundred people we’ll get stories from for the Golden Motorcycle Gang Chronicles. Then more and more people will start expressing this side of their being because it is true, we’re all both human beings and spirit beings. And once people recognize this I think it will actually have a positive impact of their behavior.

Kris: And one of the other people that was very involved with this it looks like is Barbara Marx Hubbard.

Bill: Very much so. I almost went to the extreme of listing her a third author, but she was more of an inspiration. But she did meet with both Jack and I on a couple of occasions and she’s entrenched in the latter part of the book because the whole idea of conscious evolution, which she's been holding space for, for forty years. Is really the ultimate theme and direction of the book. And for those of you that have not read Barbara's work Conscious Evolution, it really evolution by choice, not chance. And takes the position that we're not here randomly and that the universe is not random, but there's actually directionality and role in choosing a higher ground if you will. Of choosing to evolve towards greater beauty greater complexity and from the point of view of the human species greater happiness and joy, because it really isn't in anyone's interest to have a world that’s not working. For the world be working it has to be working for all billion human beings. It can’t be working for million her in America nobody else. We have to make some changes and we have to make them in a hurry in not just the environment that is heading toward some kind of doomsday scenario, but our economic system, you know our medical system, you know it’s for a change. You know if we all do that we’re finding from organizations like Heart Mask we can create resonance, we can create change that what people think and do does have an impact and it’s not hopeless. Just because our news media is always reporting the failures that are happening doesn't mean that we don't have solutions or that we can't make major --7851 --7851 changes. That’s the theme of the book and throughout the book we’ve put in quotes from people Gandhi and Margaret Mead, all the wise leaders we’ve had in the past have all focused on the ability of a small group of people to really make a significant change. What we have now with the Internet is a relatively large group of people being able to communicate with an even larger group of people. So, one you start to see that perspective, the idea of making that changes quickly it is no longer needing a way to connect and visualize and work towards a unified call.

Kris: What kind of positive things are you thinking about?

Bill: There is a number of existing organizations, we don't really want to create anything new, other than serve as the connector of these great organizations that already exist. There’s so many positive movements that are already out there. Of course, we weren't able to name them all. I think a movie came out where they can run the credit of all the not-for-profit organization are doing good things, ranging from animal care to ecology issues to abused women on and on and on and the level they were showing the screen credit it would take hours to list every organization. And so it’s not that there is a lack of organizations out there doing good things it is a lack of them connecting with each other and working together. And so our goal is that everyone who reads the Golden Motorcycle Gang goes to the appendices and looks through and sees the organizations that are of the most interest to them. We have the Shift Network. We have a club of Budapest. We have Push for Peace. We have Years Go. We have the Institute of Heart Mass. We have the Pachamama Alliance. And then we did list all the members of Jack's transformational leadership Council. Not that we want to sort of have those people stand out from others as more important individuals, but those people have dedicated their lives to creating transformational experiences for client and incorporations. So given the book about great transformation, and that we have the permission of these people before you put the names in, that they wanted to be included in them we did list all of them as well. So there are literally over a hundred transformational trainers and leaders listed in the Golden Motorcycle Gang appendixes and people can Google them and --7851 --7851 contact them. We give the websites and choose any of those individuals to connect as well.

Kris: And another thing that you have, I love it, the points of motorcycle maintenance.

Bill: Yes, well that was another synchronicity. I did not know, I happen to have met Jane Wilhite only recently we made a film called (inaudible) and my good friend Bernie Dorman called me and said, “You gotta get Jane. PSI is one of the most important organizations in the human development movement and they’re up in Clearlake and Jane never leaves Clearlake. And nobody even knows about her, but the people that have gone through her program.” And so we contacted Jane and she was kind enough to fly down and be in an interview for a film, and then when I was going through in the novel, I sort of was thinking I needed to bring in another character at the end of the book, I needed to introduce, they could have some dialogue and move this and you know introduce the National Leadership Council. And at the time I randomly chose Jane. I mean it wasn’t and her commitment to helping the world. PSI has a whole not- for-profit arm, in addition to training for corporations and individuals. So it was logical. It was only after I included her in the book, and sent her address the book that she wrote back to me and said, “you know this pretty much of a coincidence, but you know, my late husband, Thomas was a motorcycle aficionado and he actually used motorcycle training as a way of teaching people how to live their lives, whether they were riding a motorcycle or not. Training you know, human development, training, developing and used the motorcycle as a metaphor and so he developed this whole training program do you want to see it?” I said, “Sure.” And so that’s why we included it. And we actually have the free e-book, I think it’s actually total lessons that are up on a free e-book on our site the entire curriculum, if you will, from, Thomas Wilhite PSI and Jane. story of the Golden Motorcycle Gang, we bring Jane into the book and Jane’s late husband has used the motorcycle also as a metaphor for his training. So a little bit of the twilight zone going --7851 --7851 on here, but that’s the nature of this book. Just things came together in a magical way when I first started out with writing the Golden Motorcycle Gang, I was not aware of the importance of Barbara Marx Hubbard would have in the book, it was only Jack hosted an eightieth birthday party for Barbara at his home in Santa Barbara. It was only when I was at that party, that I realized, “Oh, my gosh, this isn’t just a casual friendship between Jack and Barbara. They really share a common vision.” And that’s how are we concept of conscious evolution is the logical organizing principle for the Golden Motorcycle Gang and Jack’s own life because it’s one thing to help others, but we now have a goal, a very specific goal to achieve. And that makes it even easier and more rewarding.

Kris: And back to the motorcycle training course, Jane Wilhite, didn’t her husband have a similar vision or something with the motorcycles? just have the story as told to me by Jane, but yes he did have a similar experience that Jack had and I think one of reasons, I mean it’s more than that, ‘cause I don’t want people to think we're all like happened to have been there with Jack writing Golden Motorcycles in space, we actually introduced the idea of silver motorcycles gang and the diamond motorcycle gang. The motorcycle for us is such a wonderful metaphor for freedom and joy. Motorcycles are not created by Angels, theoretically and angel doesn’t need a motorcycle, motorcycles are created by human beings. And are stereotyped of the mechanic type guy, it’s a Hell’s Angel type guy, it’s a little bit of a wild man, born to be wild. You know you go back to the ’s you have that great film with Fonda and Jack Nicholson. But we’re trying to say is being spiritual is not about not enjoying life. I mean you can be a little bit wild, but like the song Born to be Wild you can have fun, you could totally be human and you can also be spiritual. I think this is very important, we have too many religions that have said, “Oh you’re only going to find God of you give up everything.” Well, we don't believe that. It’s like, why would that be the case? By going to be fully human, enjoy life, enjoy good food, enjoy good relationship with others enjoy life and still be spiritual. And our experience is that yes, you can. And so why not be a member of the Golden Motorcycle Gang and find your --7851 --7851 own joy. Obviously it's a little bit different than the old Hell’s Angel gang where you set a king of the road, who cares about anybody else, that sort of thing. That’s not what we’re saying at all. There are rules if you will of being kind to others, being compassionate, focusing on the impact of your action, so that whatever joy you're creating for yourself is not coming at someone else’s expense, or doing harm to the environment. But in those really basic, commonsense limitations that I think most mothers teach their children you know at the age of , there’s not this big Oh, you gotta learn all these rules and regulations in order to be a good spiritual being or a good planetary citizen. In fact, one of the things that we make a point of in the book is sometimes it’s very appropriate to defy authority, and Jack was born in a military family. He went to military school. We talk a lot about that in the opening chapters of the Golden Motorcycle Gang. And so he respects authority, he respects discipline, but he also respects when it’s no longer serving. And I think that is what is really at issue for so many people today. They've been raised to fit, they are fitting into a system that is no longer working. And the basic principle of loyalty and defending our country and being part of our existing institution, there’s nothing wrong with those impulses but I think each one of us needs to start examining, is our government really working the way the founding fathers intended it to work? I mean what is all this bickering? What is this putting your own individual political party about the needs of the nation? What is this of considering your political opponents enemies? I mean they’re not enemies, they’re just the loyal opposition, they’re a different point of view. We’ve got to get back to finding ways to really work together. And you know not just doing something because that’s the way it’s always been done. And that’s the real theme of the Golden Motorcycle Gang and we don't have all the answers but we know that the answers are out there and we know that there is actually over a million organizations, we’ve only listed a few hundred that are working towards these positive goals. You’re listening to an interview on Michael Senoff’s --7851 --7851

Kris: So it really sounds like a lot of the theme is just connecting people and organizations to work on getting greater good type issues. business point of view, I’m approached all the time. I'm kind of pioneer in the book publishing world. I was involved with the first on-demand company. The first E-book company. Now that pioneers of the inanity book, even in our book, we went ahead we have called QR codes which are, you can take a picture, they’re called quick response codes, with your cell phone of the QR codes that are in our book the Golden Motorcycle Gang. And and I and Michael Beck who wrote the forward and Barbara Marx Hubbard. So I have seen in my own life out so often when you have a good idea somebody else has a similar idea and our pointe is, lets connect people with good ideas, let’s not compete instead of making a small difference to a people let’s see if by combining with other groups with similar goals, we can make a bigger difference to hundreds of thousands of people or even millions of people. And through communication with the Internet and other means, you really can share your success stories with millions of people instantly. And you do need some structure, and you know you can do it randomly on YouTube, but who’s gonna find it? But if you start connecting with other organizations that are already working towards similar goals I think that it’s gonna be almost geometric the progression of impact that each of us that an individual can have.

Kris: So as a Harvard educated anthropologist, how does that fit in to all of this journey for you?

Bill: Anthropology is the study of man, so that includes philosophy as well as behaviors and you know then to research also studying rituals and behavior patterns for many, many probably hundreds of ancient cultures. And a lot of people think oh lets just you focus on the economics as soon as we get ColdFusion working and we’re over the hump and needing oil dependence everything will resolve itself. Well, the reality is we shouldn’t stop that pursuit of alternative energy. And that's going to help things but that’s really the ultimate solution. The ultimate solution is a --7851 --7851 change in the consciousness of the human species towards greater sharing and greater cooperation and the individual problems that will be solved will be solved much more rapidly and not give any less importance to the things that are working and that are technical that need to be done but to realize that the technical solutions alone without the wider consciousness and awareness of what really success needs won’t solve the problem. In defining what success means, as Jack says, we’ve gone from go-getters, to go-givers. Go-givers are the success for the twenty first century more than the go-getters. It's great to create you know Steve Jobs is someone that I had known fantastic and has been a changer for the world. You know all of these devices that we now have. But we need for this next generation of leaders to be even beyond Steve Jobs and to see how we're able to use these devices and technologies in ways to help everyone on the planet. And you know, I think that’s the next frontier, if you will. There’s more reason for hope than sorrow. I mean we’re all going to die in our physical body and you know a lot of people won't believe this and I don't actually have any religious affiliation, so I’m not pushing any specific belief. But based on my own experience. We are eternal. There is a spiritual side of each human being that is here forever and that spiritual side is actually linked to every other human being and beyond every other human being it’s a link to all matter. When I was in the state that I was in I was able to sense being part of the tree part, of the dirt, part of the wall, part of even plastic glasses that were in the doctor’s office. You’re not what you think you are you part of something that is universal. And yet the as a human being you have your individual personality, your individual boundaries, and that’s one level of your reality. But there's another level of the spiritual being where you’re part of everything, there is no separation, there are no boundaries, you are not limited by your body and we are literally all one. And once people start having that experience or at least accepting that experience may be real work could be real. I think it will change because the reality is when you’re confronting another human being you are confronting yourself on one level. And so many of the conflicts that we have are only conflict on one level and there’s another level where we can find common ground and once people start focusing on that I think we’re going to see --7851 --7851 impossible. You know I think it’s better to be hopeful than pessimistic. I am not a Pollyanna. I am not expecting change overnight. And I see areas where it does seem almost hopeless. Where you have situations in in Africa. You have situations in the Middle East. You have such intolerance in many parts of the world. Subjugation of whole groups of people, you have mass murders. I mean you could go on and on with all negatives, you have starvation. These are not fantasy problems, these are real problem and they need real solutions. And regrettably, in some cases we’re not to be able to solve them in time for all of the individuals who are in these states of suffering. But we can start working towards the solution so that these situations will not be part of the human experience - or years from now. That’s the end of our interview, and I hope you've enjoyed it. For more great --7851 --7851 Bill Gladstone Interview Part Transcript bring you the world's best health related interview. So, if you know anyone struggling with their weight, with cancer, diabetes, ADHD, autism, heart disease or other health issues, send them Today, we have author and Waterside Production's Bill Gladstone. Bill thanks so much for joining us.

Bill: Pleasure to be with you again today Kris.

Kris: So you've got a lot of exciting stuff happening right now and one of them of course is your new book that just came out with Jack Canfield, The Golden Motorcycle Gang.

Bill: Yeah, we're doing great with that book and we're getting great feedback. I think we've gotten plus reviews on Amazon and getting a lot of positive feedback The Golden Motorcycle Gang and just a pleasure working with Jack.

Kris: It's such a neat concept too. The whole book kind of revolves around helping the planet just making things better.

Bill: And it's leading to other things. I've just been contacted by two other organizations that, based on the book, have me invited to participate activities for organizing events. I'm going to be going to a conference up at [Ion] outside of San Francisco. I've been asked by Hay House to host a webinar. So, already the book is starting to have a major impact beyond just being a book.

Kris: That's great. One of the things that I wanted to ask you, in your bio in the book, it says that you come from a publishing family. What's your history on that?

Bill: Well, my father founded a publishing company in 1936 called Arco Publishing. It was a small company at the time obviously, when he founded because, he didn't have a lot of capital or anything like that. It was based on the concept that he had of providing test preparation books for people. The very first one he did was, he was taking his driver's license exam and realized --7851 --7851 that people needed this information to pass their driver's test. They gave out books at that time that did not include the answers. It was just sample questions. So, he filled in all of the answers, mimeographed them, because it was public domain and started selling them and sold thousands in the first few weeks. He had some of his college buddies go to other motor vehicle operator centers and he had a little business. He was thinking what else could he do and this was 1936 and one of the things people were trying to do during the end of the depression was find work. So, he got hold of the Armed Forces' exam and filled in all the answers to that. His first real best seller of a national importance was practice for the Armed Forces' test and he sold over a million copies in the first year and that was the basis for Arco Publishing. He went on to States on horse books. He was very much a niche "how to" books are literature.

Kris: And so early on, it sounds like he understood that concept of finding a need and then filling. had pet books so, he went to pet stores. He had all kinds of health books and he went to health food stores. So, he really but, back in the 30s and the 40s and the 50s when I was growing up, that was quite innovative.

Kris: Now, did you help your father in his business?

Bill: I was a bit of a math prodigy as a young child. So, from the age of six on, I was working with the company as the editor on the math problems. So, whenever I reader would write in and find a mistake in the book or think they found a mistake in the mathematic sections of these books, I was the person who made the final determination (sometimes, as young as the age of seven or eight) as whether the book was correct or the reader was correct. So, that was my first introduction but then, I went on from there and did really everything that you do in a publishing --7851 --7851 company. We even had a little book store. When I was , I managed the book store for a summer. I think I had more products stolen than sold because; it was in Manhattan where things in those days were a little difficult to monitor but, I also worked in the accounting department. I worked in the sales department, editorial. I even worked in international sales. I went on a sales trip and actually, I was very successful because, at the time, I was by now in my early 20s, early teens to Japan. I actually closed a deal for , copies of How to Study for English as a Second Language, the Toefl Exam. The Japanese was very impressed that the company sent an individual. I was actually there at the time because I was also moonlighting in the film world and was working for Rod Sterling at the time as the advance coordinator for In Search of Ancient Mysteries. So, between my film background and my father's company, I had quite an exposure to media at a very young age.

Kris: Is his company still in operation?

Bill: Yes, the company was sold in 1979 to Prentice Hall and then, I'm not sure exactly when they sold it but, they sold it to a company in Nebraska. Then, that company sold it to a company called Peterson's and I think Peterson's sold it again but, the company is still around. Test prep books go on forever. They're people like the Princeton Review and Capland that have come along and done much bigger and I guess, better but, my dad really ran the company not to make as much money as it could but, to have an enjoyable life. He got the company up to about million in sales which is a good income for a modest-size book publishing company but, he wasn't super aggressive in wanting to grow the company and do a million or billion dollar entity. That wasn't his goal. In fact, he had two bays on 18th Street where the company was based in a small warehouse and that real estate was worth quite a lot but, he used one of the two bays just to park his car so he wouldn't have to walk too far to his office. So, he was really more about enjoying life and making good deals and having fun than just focusing on making the most money he could.

Kris: Seems like he imparted that to you also. --7851 --7851

Bill: Yeah, I am very much like him in that I like to do fun creative things and of course, we like to make money. Without money, it's very hard to live in the modern in the decent amount but, you quickly reach the position in life where you realize, money is not the key to happiness. There are other things that are more important as long you have sufficient money. Because I do deal with very wealthy people, I'm aware of people that literally are billionaire and aren't nearly as happy as I am. I think once you have your first or million, to spend a lot of time focusing on making more money is kind of a foolish thing but, some people do and everybody's different. I was brought up to enjoy life and to examine all aspects of what it is to lead a fulfilling life.

Kris: And one of the things you've done that just incredibly well we thought was the movie that you've produced and written Tapping the Source. talked about Tapping the Source in this context. We did have some billionaires in that movie and other very, very successful people both in the business world and the entertainment but the question that I ask people was not, "How did you make all your money?" I ask, "What's the key to your personal happiness and how do you stay connected to that source on a daily basis?" So, that's always been to me a much more important question. Of course, along the way, it is fun to succeed in whatever you do and there's a lot of things that you choose to do that will generate large sums of money and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying that never been the most important focus. Even the people that we interviewed in Tapping the Source, people like Dean Graziosi whose company grew from million to million in less than two years, has stated that it wasn't until he realized that he was really allowing not just himself but everyone worked for him to live in their highest and best way and give their greatest gift that his company really mushroomed to that level. I think that's the kind of focus that Tapping the Source imparts to people and yes, one of the byproducts will be the creation of and some cases the abundance on the money side, but not because someone is so concerned about just making money. --7851 --7851

Kris: Right and one of the things that's striking about the movie is it really does make you want to go out and do something even if it's small to make the world a better place. Source was that the key ingredient to happiness was first to be grateful for what you already have because no matter what your situation is, you're breathing. You're alive and that in of itself is something to be very, very grateful for and hopefully, most people have a lot more to be grateful than that. Once you’re grateful, the next most important element in being happy is to be of service to others and we interviewed so many people from so many different fields and none of these people were present at any of the interviews of the other people and they all basically were saying the same thing. That was what was so fascinating for us when we were filming Tapping the Source. We really felt that the source itself was making our movie for us because; we had people in Sedona, Arizona finishing sentences that had been started by somebody in Hawaii or in Mexico. It really was unusual how everyone once they were focused on what they felt was the biggest gift they could give to the audience, how similar the messages were from such a diverse group of people.

Kris: So, it wasn't scripted?

Bill: No, not scripted at all.

Kris: Wow, that's amazing. I actually thought it was.

Bill: When you look at, you think that it was but, it wasn't. That's what was so amazing to us. I didn't even intend to produce the film. It was an accident. I got tricked into it in an innocent enough way. Somebody else wanted to make this film and was going to finance it and they had a conflict at the last moment and dropped out. I had already interviewed of my closest friends and clients, people like Dr. Irvine Lazlow and Patricia Aberdeen and Marci Shimoff and I had told them we were going to make this film. So, I really finished making this more from a sense of, "I don't want to disappointed the people who have already given up their time to be interviewed", rather than, "Oh, I think I'm going to make the next Secret and I'm going to make a lot of money." That wasn't our motivation. Of course, we would love to be the next Secret and sell million copies and we have a long way to go to sell million but, we just feel --7851 --7851 very good about the way the movie came together. One person lead to another person to another person. People got very excited about it and things happened that were truly magical. We were at a party on Kauai over the 4th of July at the Bronson's house, the actor and his wife and we saw these fire dancers performing. I mentioned to Gale Newhouse who was the co-producer, "Oh, it would have been great to connect with them and get them in the film." The next day, we're doing an interview on another part of the island with the young man who had a chocolate farm. We're talking with him and I think inadvertently I mentioned these wonderful fire dancers I had just seen the night before and "Relevantly small island, maybe you know how to get in touch with them?" He said, "No need to get in touch with them. The lead dancer that you've described is my girlfriend. Sure, I'll get her up to your place to do an interview tonight." So, things like that kept happening in the filming in Tapping the Source. So, we really do feel it was a magical experience for us as film makers and the feedback that we've been getting and the awards we've been winning, the film is pretty magical for the viewers too. That's really amazing because I thought it was scripted. I thought, "How did they get them to sound so sincere?"

Bill: That's what we did. We really wanted each person just to give what was most in their heart as if they were speaking with their own family and people did that. We were just moved to tears in some cases during the interviews. Just some fascinating people who aren't well-known are also in the film, some artists and some young musicians. So, it's almost a family, we feel. There were over people that we interviewed and we were actually able to get in the film.

Kris: You know, we should mention, you've written a book Tapping the Source.

Bill: That was the inspiration for the film and people should understand. Unlike most book/film, it's not based on the book. It is based on the thinking of Charles Haanel who created The --7851 --7851 Master Key System which was the inspiration for tapping the Source. Tapping the Source the book is really bringing The Master Key System that Charles Haanel in 1911 up to modern times. We hired John [Feldy] who is an excellent writer and meditation teacher to take what Charles Haanel had taught almost years ago and modernize it for today's busy world. So, we took the or I think it might even have been or lessons that Charles Haanel was teaching and reduced it to and we created focus phrases. That book is still selling very well and the main reason is people are really using Tapping the Source as their introduction for those who have never meditated before into meditation. My own excitement for Tapping the Source as a book really is the thinking of Charles Haanel. He really was a seminal thinker. He was the first person to talk about the Law of Attraction and if you want the real scoop on what the Law of Attraction is, you really need to go back to The Master Key System and to our book, Tapping the Source and Tapping the Source is all about how you can use focused attention to actually put into practice The Law of Attraction. A lot has been written about The Law of Attraction but, a lot has been misinterpreted about what The Law of Attraction really is and how to use it and it really is the law of the universe. It's not this new-aged idea of "Think and everything will just essence because you're essence is connected to the source. There is a source from which everything emanates and science actually just in the last couple of decades proven through string- theory that the idea of an "A-Field" or zero-point actually is true. One of our clients who is also in the film, Dr. Irvine Lazlow has just written a book about the [Okashi] Paradigm; this book hasn't even been published. I just got the manuscript and in it, he is siting evidence that it is probable but scientifically, we can in fact access this "A-Point" which would explain unexplainable phenomena, non-local phenomena. How is it possible that certain individuals are able to gather information from a logical point of view, they should not be able to gather. You can think of this in terms of great musicians. Even Bob Dillan has written in his autobiography, when he was writing it at the height of his creativity, where did these lyrics come from? I have no idea. You go back to Bob Dillan, the --7851 --7851 reason he's such an icon, if you go back, he had a period of probably or years where every song he wrong was just magical as if given from God. I think that is the way creativity really works and that's really what Charles Haanel and others have been talking about. In my own research on the Mayan calendar, for instance, which I have evidence predates the Mayan. We're just calling it the Mayan calendar because they were the popularizers of the calendar, not the actual creators according to the research I've done. The only explanation that I think is at all logical is that somehow these ancient people (because I believe the calendar was created at least 3000 years ago) were accessing information through the "A-field" and how they did that, I don't really know but, it's the more logically explanation than anyone has come up with yet. So, I think there's a lot to be said for Tapping the Source, not just as a metaphor but as a reality, that there actually is if you will a physical source for all information and knowledge that we can actually tap into. That is really the key to The Law of Attraction because, if you tap into that source and you resonate with that source and then start giving out from your own connection to the source your most positive energy, you're clearly going to attract back equally positive energy. So, it's not about necessarily attracting back money, but attracting back positive energy which will include money if that's part of what you need at that time in your life. Many people misinterpret and think that it's merely about money or really misinterpret the importance of money in their lives. Obviously, it's better to have money than not to have money but, I have personal experience of having lost millions of dollars and only learning years later, that it was actually in my long-term best interest to have lost that money. So, my personal experiences very much parallel what I've learned from Charles Haanel and the other people that we interviewed in Tapping the Source. There's, for me, a continuity between my original novel The Twelve, (where I had information that I received in a near-death experience), experiences I had through Tapping the Source and what I've been learning working with Jack Canfield on The Gold Motorcycle Gang. to the universe itself. That there actually is a very positive --7851 --7851 reason that some of the negativity that we experience as human beings happens to us and it is for bad reason but actually for good reasons. I guess a lot of debate on this, you know...you're a ["Can Do"] character, you're too positive, you're too optimistic. I will admit that my personal life is no different than everyone else’s. I do have moments where things go wrong and we all do and I'm not immune to the great deal of suffering that's going on in the world today. At the same time, I think there's a larger perspective that is in fact more accurate where the universe itself is a joyful universe. The more you connect to the source, the more you're going to connect to that inner feeling of joy which really, I believe, permeates all of matter and all of life, not just some planet Earth but throughout the universe.

Kris: --7851 --7851 I did, being only at the time, stop talking about the experience. It wasn't doing me any good to try and impose my reality on anyone else. I just was quiet about it but, I was never letting go of the reality of that experience even though, people that I respected tried to explain to me that I couldn't possibly have experienced what I did. I've now worked with other authors who have written about near-death experiences, one of whom, Robert [Copps] over in the Netherlands has interviewed over 1000 people. I've also worked with some people who've down scientific studies on a prominent heart surgeon had, I think over a dozen patients who have had near-death experience because, that is a time when people are very close to death when they're being operated on. Some of them have died and come back and they've had descriptions of seeing everything in the room including what the doctor was doing while they were under drugs and that possibly from a logical normal human perspective was able to perceive what was going on. So, we have very solid scientific information now that near- death experiences are real and that there is, as another one of my friends and clients Dr. Gary Schwartz says, "The survivor of consciousness after death." You're consciousness does survive beyond your body. This is really startling and a lot of people do have trouble with it. My own father was a chemist before he dying and he was not a believer. He was like, "Well, as a chemist, I know exactly what's going to my body. So, I'm going to disintegrate back into the chemicals and when you're done, you're done." That was his reality and I certainly couldn't persuade him otherwise. I'm sure there are a lot of people who share that view of "We're just material beings and when the material of our bodies is gone, it's gone." My own experience is not that. I don't necessarily have any major world religion that I adhere to. I was raised Jewish but not really engaged in the religion. I lived in Spain so; I lived with a Catholic family and certainly appreciate all the beauty of the Catholic Church. I took refuge because I was meditating in a group that was Buddhist. So, I had actually taken refuge in Zen Buddhist meditation. I actually made a film in search of the historical Christ where I filmed Hindu, [Swamis], the head of the Greek Orthodox Church, the --7851 --7851 head of the [Amidine] Church and many other religious leaders including the Dali Lama. I embraced world religions but, my own experience is quite personal and beyond any specific world religion though not in conflict with what I call the spiritual side of these religions. My own feelings and I write about this in the novel The Twelve that, no single world religion has a monopoly on the truth of true spiritual experience. What is best in each world religion is actually very similar. I would just love a day when the focus was not so much on the difference between the Muslim experience and the Christian experience and the Hindu experience but on what is similar. At the basis of all these religions there is the actual experience of the Divine and that is really what we need to focus on if we're going to create a world that is not in conflict but in harmony.

Kris: And Bill, that's really interesting that one thing you mentioned was that you have this awareness, this kind of attitude, more than attitude before the near-death experience. How did you get that?

Bill: Clearly it was something I was born with and this is why I connected so much with Jack Canfield when he told me the story of The Golden Motorcycle Gang. It was interesting because, Jack me the story of The Golden Motorcycle Gang almost years. He just told it as a story and that was that. Every time I saw Jack after that I'd say, "Jack, have you thought about...I know you're doing the Chicken Soup for the Soul books. What about The Golden Motorcycle Gang? Have you gotten in that?" It was really my focus on that because; the experience that he recounts in The Golden Motorcycle Gang was similar to what I intuited as my own experience. Basically, in a nutshell, The Gold Motorcycle Gang is the story of Jack viewing himself as a spiritual being riding with a bunch of friends through space on golden motorcycle gangs and peering down and seeing a small blue planet in distress which turns out to be planet Earth. He decides that he and his friends should incarnate as human beings and help out like a Good Samaritan would in seeing a car wreck and seeing if they could help. My own sense was, I was here not for any reason related to my particular personality but, somehow serve to assist this planet --7851 --7851 towards a higher level of awareness. As a very young child, even though for strange reasons including having a very violent schizophrenic older brother, I didn't speak but, I was thinking a lot and I was thinking mostly with numbers. I had the ability as a very young child to multiply three-digit numbers in my head and to actually imagine the nature of infinity and things that I've been told, like [TIJ] and others, someone that age couldn't possibly do but, again, it was my reality. I remember very clearly at the age of six after one particular horrific incident with my older brother of actually taking a dull butter-knife and thinking, "I should just end it all. I'm never going to be able to live up to my full potential of what I came here to do." Of course, I didn't do myself any harm and went back to being a little kid and getting along the best I could with this irrational older brother being. But, I clearly had this sense that I was here for a reason. I didn't know what the reason was and frankly, most of my life; I didn't know what the reason was. I think I do know now. It's why I wrote my novel The Twelve and why I wrote The Golden Motorcycle Gang. I am seeing connections now with other people including Jack Canfield, Barbara Mark-Hubbard and many, many other people who really are focused on, "What is the plan and let's get on with it because, it's really up to us collectively to turn things around and ensure that this planet 1000 years from now is still the paradise that it's intended to be." I believe that it is an actual possibility and even probability and the challenge facing us today may seem daunting are not nearly as difficult as the press and the popular media makes them out to be. I think that human beings have tremendous capability and what's been holding us back are very basic things such as fear and greed and bad behavior. It's not that hard to change. I think it's hard for certain people to change but, we don't have to change everyone to change the energy on this planet. Certainly, once massive changes are made in the way that we raise our children and educate our children and share the wealth of this different generation in charge of this planet. I think if we do things right, that generation will run things much more effectively than we have in the last or years. --7851 --7851

Kris: And, one thing that really came across with your movie, Tapping the Source, it can start with one person. It doesn't have to take over the United Nations. It can be one small thing. you analyze the changes that have happened on planet earth, whether you're talking about kind of like the fall of the Berlin Wall. That wasn't a planned major corporate takeover military activity. Or you look at ever more recently, Arab Spring and have yet to be determined whether this is really going to be that positive or not. Certainly, the short term has been a dramatically complete change of the regime in Egypt. You look at someone like Steve Jobs. He was one person and he didn't even finish college and look at the impact he had on the way we communicate. Even your show probably wouldn't exist had it not been for the internet. It wasn't this massive...I mean, yeah, there's a little bit of government for the original basis of the internet but, it was really a few individuals who created it. Everything that we're doing from a technology point of view, there's teams of people who get behind it but, the initial ideas are really from an individual here, an individual there. You don't have to be a genius in technology to make an impact. You can also be making an impact just by being a good mother and a good citizen. We're starting to see how things are interconnected much more than we ever realized and that everybody's behavior effects everybody else's behavior. We are starting to see even everybody's thoughts affect everybody else's thoughts. [Park Mass] up in Northern California has done some amazing experiments on the impact of focused attention to create residence and the ability of residence to actually change the random generator computing thing down in Princeton so we can actually see how though alone can have an actual impact on physical reality. So, there's a lot that we're learning that makes me very optimistic about the future. of you," and then, I show up. Is that how that works? --7851 --7851

Bill: I think that's been going on for centuries but yes. I don't know. That may have more to do with what we were talking before, the "A-field" and explanation for ESP. Would the different people sort of honing into the same source at the same time. It does happen much more frequently than people admit. "I was just thinking about you" and seconds later they call. Or, "I was just thinking about you," and days later, they're in your town when they normally live 3000 miles away. These kinds of things are happening all the time. I refer to them as synchronicities and we emphasize the value of synchronicities in The Golden Motorcycle Gang. Synchronicities were very important in Jack Canfield's own evolution and certainly, they've been very important in mine. I site a lot of them in my novel The Twelve which is for the main character very autobiographical. Almost every incident in that book was based on actual events in my life.

Kris: Wow, so that's the connection with your brother, then? That's pretty autobiographical. which doesn't make you fat"...which in ancient days meant healthy...."That which doesn't kill you makes you fatter or actually endure and conquer does make you a wiser person, a more compassionate person or a stronger person. So, that's the level in which I think a lot of times we need to look at negative events and see that there is a reward at the end of it and that what we think of in the moment as negative may not be as nearly as negative that we imagine and that it may in fact be a hidden blessing for our higher good.

Kris: So Bill, you're also one of the top literary agents in the country. You have Waterside Productions. You've represented such people as Eckhart Tolle, Tom Hartman, Conversations with God.

Bill: I'm still an agent and I enjoy agenting. I have to say that as my own film making and book writing is increasing, the number of new clients that I take on is decreasing but, I have eight other agents who work for me. Most of the new clients, I'm sending to other agents. We just hired Jill Cramer who was formally the editorial director at Hay House and she's starting to agent. David Nelson who was sales manager for [Inaudible] is doing some agenting. So, we're still taking on clients though --7851 --7851 personally, I taking on very, very few clients and focusing really on some of the people that you just mentioned, you know, the existing Best Selling Authors that have been with Waterside for many years, people like Tom Hartman and Neale Donald Walsch. I enjoy the agenting. I have to say that it's a little discouraging for new or what we would call "mid list" authors. By "mid list", it's really today anybody who's not one of these already proven Best Selling Authors because, the market for the physical printed book is actually shrinking. We lost the Borders Bookstore change and number of sales as they did even two year ago. Now, we do have all the e-books happening but, e-books are sold at a much lower price than hardcover or paperback books. So, the total revenue being generated is not necessarily greater as these in terms of the author's share of it.

Kris: But there is still the guy that sold a million in six months.

Bill: Oh, of course, there's always going to be the one in million that sells a million. It's like winning the lottery. The reality is, particularly with today's technology where literally millions of people are putting books out, maybe it's not one in a million but, it's probably like in , books actually sells a million copies which is not that unusual when you think about it but it is, frankly discouraging. A lot of people set out writing a book and they imagine selling at least , copies. Well, there's fewer than a 1000 book a year that sell , copies. On average, it various but, if you include paperback and authors making between $ and $ a book. So, if you're supporting a family and you just want to be a writer, you have to sell at least , books a year just to survive. There are very, very few authors in American who do that. I would say the number of authors selling , or more book is probably 2000 or less in the entire country. So that means there are only 2000 people who are supporting themselves just as writers. It's really much less than that because, out of those 2000, actually the most successful aren't writers at all. They're celebrities. I mean, Paris Hilton. She's not a writer but, she has a book on the Best Seller list because she's a celebrity. So, maybe you need to cut it in half and you're down to maybe 1000 pure writers in this country that can actually support themselves just from their writing. --7851 --7851 Many writers teach, many writers lecture, many writers have other sources of income but, it is a little bit discouraging as a literary agent to see how difficult it is for someone to earn a competent living just being a writer. In fact, part of my motivation in becoming an agent was that, I realized (because my original intent was to be a writer) that, I wasn't giving myself very good odds of earning a six figure income being a writer. Whereas as an agent, I was able to agent books much more quickly than I could write them. So, it was kind, "Okay, I want to be involved in books and this is something that I have an ability to do." Particularly, when I started, I was focused on all the computer books. So, I did all the "For Dummies" books and even before that Peter Norton and Danny Goodman and all the people who were creating the make a lot of money doing that but, just being a pure writer or an agent representing pure writers is not an easy way to make a living.

Kris: So, it sounds like authors need to really diversify and I guess the good part of that is there are a lot of options now with the internet. representation. Waterside Production represents online courses. We've been doing that for over years partly because of my personality, I'm always looking for something new and I get bored easily. So, I'm always out there. We were involved with the first print on demand company; the first e-book company, the first online instruction company and all those things have worked very well. So, I really encourage people, not just particularly if you're in the "how to" space, don't just write a book but, get an online are offering smaller and smaller advances to all but their "A- Teams." Unless you're able to get one of those large advances, you might be better off just self-publishing. Do it as an e-book but print on demand. You've got Author House. You've got Balboa which is a division of Hay House doing this for spiritual books. My own company, Waterside Productions, we're starting to do that. We have over titles. I've got a number of books that I --7851 --7851 thought I was going to sell for at least $, or $, advances but, we didn't get those offers. In this case, most of the authors I represent are people that are barely well established in their careers. I said, "Look, for a few thousand dollars, let's just at least get it out as an e-book with print on demand and see what happens." So, we're experimenting with that. I'm not saying that's the solution but, I think you have to keep trying things. If you have something important that you really believe in and you want to get it out today, unlike or years ago, you can do so for really just a few thousand dollars. If you can build up momentum and do your own marketing, most of which you should focus on the internet, Facebook and all the things that are happening, do it. We're now being approached by companies that want to do what they call "enhanced" e-books. That's e-books that include audio and video portions. I actually just finished today writing my own script for something that's going to be called The Golden Motorcycle Gang Wise Notes. This is sort of an "enhanced" e-book cliff-note edition of my own book. This is something that they're going to get out for $. and see what happens. There are all these kinds of opportunities. I totally encourage people to be creative and be courageous and just go for their dreams but, don't expect immediate success and don't expect to get a lot of support from the established companies that are out there. I was just interviewed by the North County Times here in San Diego and I think the final quote they had for me...they asked me, "What's your advice to writers?" My advice was, "Don't quit your day-job but, don't give up on writing either." So, I think that is my advice. You you're going make a fortune as a writer but, at the same time, if you truly are passionate about writing, just keep writing and if it's meant to be, you'll find a way to share your writing with a large audience.

Kris: You're listening to an interview on Michael Senoff's Bill, what are some of the must-dos that authors just have to do if they're going to try and publicize their book? --7851 --7851

Bill: Must do that the authors have to do to promote themselves? website should be the name of their book. They have to be on Facebook. They have to get involved with Twitter and even as I say all this, it's kind of ironic because, my most successful client of recent years is Eckhart Tolle. Of course, Eckhart did none of that but, he's kind of the exception. So, I'm not saying that it's a must that everybody always do but, these are the things that the more successful writers that coming up are doing. You need to find some marketing guru, maybe someone like Dan Hollings. He was the marketing expert behind The Secret and he's now also behind the mobile marketing. The new thing I've heard now is it's all about mobile marketing. There are more cell phones than computers so; you've got to find a way to get everybody on their cell phones. These are the things that you have to learn how to do. I'm not sure I know how to do them myself. I'm experimenting with a lot of different companies and ideas. Most of them, frankly, don't work but, that's the nature of progress. You have to try maybe a dozen things before you find the one that does work and then, when you do, everyone thinks you're a genius but, you could for . So, you have to have patience and you have you're going to succeed. This is not necessarily the right path for everyone. If you're a young person and struggling financially, you should write but, you should not necessarily anticipate that that writing is going to give you the economic ability to live the life that you want. You should explore doing other things at the same time.

Kris: But, I did want to, just real quickly before we go, go over kind of the key points of The Master Key System which, you say is so important in business.

Bill: The Master Key System as a book is really an amazing accomplishment. I have to give all the credit to John Shelby. I mean, John did the bulk of the writing and he had spent over years teaching meditation. What he did in each of the original Master Key sessions that Charles Haanel wrote about in The Master Key System, he had ended it with, “Now find a quiet --7851 --7851 chair and go and think upon these things." He didn't have the meditate. As a professional trainer of meditation, John came up with what he calls, "focus phrases". They're very simple and you just follow these seven simple phrases every morning for five minutes. John of course recommends a half an hour but, I'm a very practical person, I'm very busy and I'm a very impatient person. I actually only spend about five minutes and it works. You get five minutes in the evening, that's even better. Even something as little as those five minutes can make a huge difference. John has been very successful and hundreds if not thousands of people have followed those exact phrases. Once you're able to be in those phrases, they will lead you to this state of connection to the source. In my own personal case, I can go anymore. I just go to that place but, the goal will get you there either way. Once you're in that place of feeling this sense of connection, it's very hard to have a bad day. [Laughs] So, I can say, you just get it and you go forth and you're going to feel great. It's like everything, it might take you an hour the first time you do it or even two but, if you just stay with it, it's like riding a bicycle, you're never going to forget it once you reach the state and once you find whatever it is that's going to work. I'm not one to say, "Oh, Tapping the Source is the only way to do it." Not at all but, it is an effective way. It's a way that works. Particularly for someone who maybe listening to this show who has never wanted to meditate, never thought about meditating, doesn't want to be involved with some Indian guru, or some religion-free and it works and it captures the same essence that you would in any of these much more intricate traditions and it's not asking you to leave the world and not focus on what's around you. It's the opposite. You go within through meditation so you can be more present for your children, more present for your spouse, more present for your employer, more present for your community. It's not about retreating away from reality, it's about entering reality. --7851 --7851 For me, Tapping the Source is a wonderful tool, the book. Then, when you watch the film, the film should inspire you to want to do the work. There's a little work involved in anything that's rewarding it is and how successful people have almost universally adopted their own way of finding this connection whether it's through meditation, through nature or through some other means. It is this connection, this ability to tap the source which is real which really will change very quickly your life in a positive way.

Kris: Well Bill, we want to thank you so much for joining us and

Bill: It's www.goldenmotorcyclegang.com for the novel. For the novel The Twelve it's www.12thebook.com. So, those are the sites. We welcome everybody to join the gang as Jack says, "Join The Golden Motorcycle Gang". Everyone who gets the message is automatically a member of the gang. It's not some exclusive club that you had to be born in a certain time or place or star to be. It's just a matter to realize that you are part of a larger design if you will and that you're here to make a difference.

Kris: Well, thanks again Bill and we look forward to talking with you again.

Bill: Okay, well you have a great day.

Kris: That's the end of our interview and I hope you've enjoyed it. For more great health-related interviews go to Michael Senoff's --7851